Old Model 30 Carbine

I recently acquired an Old Model Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine. The cylinder sometimes over rotates. To fix this Ruger carved a tunnel between chambers so the firing pin doesn't hit steel. I don't like the fact that it sometimes rotates past and between chambers, is there anything I can do about this? Any other neat trivia or tips on the Blackhawk would be nice too. Not new to Blackhawks or 30 carbines, but am new to the two combined so any warnings or advice about their quirks would be appreciated.

I would send it back to Ruger for repair. Doesn't "smell" right.

I figure they wouldn't do much since it's a problem they're aware of.

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Originally Posted by 0verkill

I figure they wouldn't do much since it's a problem they're aware of.

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Over-rotation more than 5 degrees in which the locking bolt engages the cylinder not simply should not happen.

If when cocking the hammer cylinder rotation is not stopped positively by engagement of the bolt or cylinder stop with the locking bolt notches cut into the cylinder circumference, that is called a "throw-by" and is a MAJOR category defect which they should repair under warranty.

Ruger would replace the trigger parts with NM parts (transfer bar) and would repair the over rotation if that did not fix the problem.

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Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

Ruger would replace the trigger parts with NM parts (transfer bar) and would repair the over rotation if that did not fix the problem.

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They will ALSO return your old parts and any non-factory, after-market parts to you.

cyl over rotating is a timing problem, and should be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Outpost75

They will ALSO return your old parts and any non-factory, after-market parts to you.

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But if you put them back in, you'll be right back where you started.



In other news, I don't have first hand experience with old models, but new model 30's can have tiny throats. (mine were .305-ish) I always assumed they did it on purpose to aid headspace, but it's Ruger, so who knows.

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Originally Posted by cas

But if you put them back in, you'll be right back where you started.



In other news, I don't have first hand experience with old models, but new model 30's can have tiny throats. (mine were .305-ish) I always assumed they did it on purpose to aid headspace, but it's Ruger, so who knows.

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Tight throats give best accuracy with factory ammo having jacketed bullets.

My 1972 date of manufacture .30 Carbine Ruger has .310 throats and shoots everything well, either cast or jacketed. If yours is tight, .310 is a good place to stop when having DougGuy hone them.

WCC44 Ball ammo is more accurate from the Ruger at 100 yards than my 1944 Inland M1 carbine.

I size Accurate 31-100T cast bullets .309, the same as I do for my 7.62x25 Tokarev and use the same 7.4 grains of AutoComp in the carbine and Ruger.

Not THAT tight. :D I like my bullets to at least touch the sides of the barrel on the way down. ;)

I have a 2013 edition of Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine. Its internal dimensions are about as perfect as can be--throats are .3085", grooves are .308" right on the dot. Cast bullets sized at .309" shoot very well.

Maybe I should have been more specific. The pistol's already had the transfer bar conversion done. It's more of a too much momentum problem. As long a sI cock it slow, it's fine. When I try to run it at speed is when it over rotates. Playing with the empty revolver it is during the half cock cycle. If I put it on half cock really fast and hard I can make it skip 2 chambers ind be halfway to the third. I contacted Ruger and was informed that until I have it converted/upgraded I will receive no help. I sent them a second email informing them a second time it already had the transfer bar safety and have received no reply as yet and really don't expect to receive one from them.

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Originally Posted by 0verkill

Maybe I should have been more specific. The pistol's already had the transfer bar conversion done. It's more of a too much momentum problem. As long a sI cock it slow, it's fine. When I try to run it at speed is when it over rotates. Playing with the empty revolver it is during the half cock cycle. If I put it on half cock really fast and hard I can make it skip 2 chambers ind be halfway to the third. I contacted Ruger and was informed that until I have it converted/upgraded I will receive no help. I sent them a second email informing them a second time it already had the transfer bar safety and have received no reply as yet and really don't expect to receive one from them.

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I would contact the General Counsel for Ruger in Southport, CT. When they converted and upgraded your gun to transfer bar, they accepted responsibility for returning to you a SAFE gun. If you still have the "throwby" condition that is a major category defect and if they are unable to fix the gun, and return it in a SAFE condition, they should replace it with a current model.

Call them on the phone. Explain your problem as best you can and they should give you a Return Authorization Number to send it back. You are stating that they said they won't touch it because it's already been converted? By who?
Ruger doesn't like to have unsafe Rugers out in the public. I'd say try again. 888-220-1173 is the phone number. I hope you get it going- Blackhawks rule.

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Thank you for contacting Ruger Customer Service.
Your Customer Service Issue # is 10106289

Owners of all "Old Model" (pre-1973) Ruger single action revolvers, including Bearcats with serial numbers below 93-00000, can get our free safety conversion. It can help prevent accidents caused by a blow to the hammer if the user has failed to take the basic safety precaution of keeping an empty chamber under the hammer. In order to encourage our customers to take advantage of the free safety update, no service work will be performed and no parts will be sold for the revolver unless it has been converted. You can contact us at 336-949-5200 for more information.

The Old Model Conversion includes the replacement of the original hammer, trigger, cylinder pawl, cylinder latch, cylinder latch spring, base pin and trigger plunger spring. This service is offered at no charge to the customer and all original components, removed from the firearm, are returned along with the converted revolver. Please be advised any altered parts would not be returned.

That's the reply I got from Ruger cut and pasted . It looks like a standard reply that was probably also cut and pasted. I sent them a second email telling them it was already converted to the transfer bar safety system and have not received a reply. It's a shame, the gun really likes cast bullets and other than being useless is fun to play with.

You want the customer service supervisor, not the clerk who sends the postcards.

To be honest, I don't think I want to talk to any of them. I at least actually got a response to my second inquiry in bold below. Look, the thing is that this is a problem Ruger knows about and is not going to fix. I'm wondering if anyone else has came up with a solution to solve it. I can't find a store locally that has wave washers or I'm going to try that.

Thank you for contacting Ruger Customer Service.
Your Customer Service Issue # is 10107514

We would like to take a look at your firearm to address your concerns. Please contact our Product Service Department at 336-949-5200 with the serial number to have an RMA number issued for return, you may send it in through your dealer if you prefer. Please have them contact us with the serial number and the stores FFL number to have an RMA number issued. Please be advised, if you will be sending the firearm through a dealer we will need the dealers permission to discuss the repairs with you. Once it gets evaluated someone will be in contact with an estimate.

Ruger Customer Service

You've made up your mind it seems- why did you post at all? It seems to me there is an underlying reason you don't want Ruger to see it but I'm just guessing at this point. They'll fix it -IF you let them have it.
My .02 Nada Mas.

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The reason I posted was simple, to see if anyone else had solved this problem and what they did to fix it. The reason I don't want to send it to Ruger is because it's a waste of time. They might fix it, they might not. I may be out a pistol for a few months and get it back in exactly the same shape as I sent it. They may send a new one with the exact same problem. I really appreciate all you smart ***** who don't have a clue responding to a problem you know nothing about.

I will consider myself put in my place.

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Overkill -- I "hear" your frustration! Where I reside, minimal population is the major "plus" -- putting services including a gunsmith requiring a minimal 75 mile drive... with him so over-booked, four to six months is not out of the unusual wait time for a repair. I have a .30 carbine Ruger Blackhawk, which I purchased quite used, with it sporting a 7 ½” barrel; s/n 51-193xx, made in 1980. My only complaint and one-half with this revolver is it gives new definition to ***LOUD*** when fired. And, the 1/2-complaint is my instructions advise against use of lead cast bullets -- which I believe is their being cognizant of the timing issue -- e.g., lead shaving. (???) Regardless -- for me -- it's been a great toy. The sights always seem to shoot low (just a "hair" -- which, as soon as I recall -- make it non consequential on targets) I got it due to its price being better than "right" and at the time it seemed a great complement to my IAI .30 carbine. Good luck-- it seems you're in right direction -- in finding someone competent to make it safe!

I never really understood the why of it, but the 30 carbine Ruger has always had a reputation for being excessively loud; as in both plugs and muffs recommended.

Louder that Purgatory's Drumline, Joe. M1 Carbine ammo or reloads approaching their pressures announce their discharges in no uncertain terms.

I have had 3 of these, and my current example has been the most accurate of them. It dotes upon the Lee Soup Can run at a loud 1350-1400 FPS, and more gently on the Lee 100 RN plain base at 900 FPS.

They also throw a huge red fireball with LC GI ammo.

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Originally Posted by ShooterAZ

They also throw a huge red fireball with LC GI ammo.

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WW-296 behind 110 JSPs gives a healthy yellow-orange flash at dusk that lights up adjacent hillsides and canyon walls nicely. It might seem that I bought the 30 Carbine BH as an obnoxious noisemaker, but it is actually a pretty decent varminter. With 100-120 grain bullets at 900-1000 FPS it is not such a nasty eardrum drill and will anchor small and medium varmints pretty well. Most of its quarry has been jackrabbits, and these lighter loads would probably do for coyotes. I just never seem to have the BH along when I kick up song dogs.

Overkill,
Your problem lies within the Ruger design for the frame mounted hand spring. It was a genius idea when introduced and has been copied by most modern made S.A. producers. I was taught NOT to do this type of conversion (only on competition guns) for the very reason you posted your post. It typically introduces a throw-by situation that is common for Ruger S.A.s as evidenced by the "beauty ring" usually found on their cylinders. It is considered normal on the Ruger S.A. In the competition crowd, it is called "Ruger-run-around" when the shooter has to keep cycling the action to fire the round missed because of throw-by.
Anyway, I do this conversion routinely as part of my service now because I have (for the most part) addressed the throw-by problem. My conversion uses a slightly larger diameter pushrod (plunger) powered by a shorter but stouter spring. The result is a setup that mimics the hand action of a Colt but has the "unbreakableness" of the Ruger! The job of the hand is not only cylinder rotation, it is also supposed to apply a braking effect to help with cyl lockup. One of the first signs of a failing or broken hand spring in a Colt style action is . . . cyl throw-by. This is the reason for the stout spring in my conversion.

So, I would suggest that your spring be replaced with one that has more tension. That should definitely help with your situation.

Mike

I have had a lot of Ruger Blackhawks, 3screw. At one time in 60s I had one of each in each barrel length, some pairs. All bought new. I never had any trouble with any Ruger SA that I bought new.
I still buy 3screws from time to time but no new models. I have seen used 3screws that had firing pin tracks between chambers. Never occurring in my guns I thought it was damage caused by fanning the hammer. It never occurred to me that it was part failure before the fact. I have even seen this on Single-6s. I guess I had tunnel vision on this because of seeing many Colt clones of the
day that were ruined by fanning. By tunnel I guess OP is referring to a groove cut so firing pin never
hangs up? Makes sense to me that when gun is briskly cocked there is a issue on parts with the sudden stop of cylinder. One part has wear on it the over travel would be built in.

Finally a few people who understand. Sorry for losing it earlier, but I only get on the internet every week or two and it's a bit frustrating to keep getting the same answer to a question I never asked.
45 Dragoon, thanks for your help especially. I tried a wave washer to put more pressure against the front of the cylinder to slow it down, but it was too thick. As it was one I robbed off a LEE mould to try I didn't want to thin it down. I did notice the top protrusion of the hand seemed small, like it didn't make enough contact.

Drm50, yes the tunnel is the circular groove cut between chambers so the firing pin doesn't hit steel when it passes the chamber.

No fanning has ever been done with it that I'm aware of, especially not by me. By run at speed I mean holding the revolver tight in my right hand with only my trigger finger moving and supporting and cocking with the left. Even going at a fairly slow pace sighting it in I had it skip once.

Asked and answered. No further discussion is necessary, since the OP has been told what needs to be done. Any further action is up to him.

Thread closed.