Hey guys. I made a cap maker a while back and have not had much luck making priming compound so i ordered some. while i wait for it i figured i would try to improve my cap cups so im trying to up load pics to see what you guys think.
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Hey guys. I made a cap maker a while back and have not had much luck making priming compound so i ordered some. while i wait for it i figured i would try to improve my cap cups so im trying to up load pics to see what you guys think.
can you tell the difference between them?
These are for a #11 caps and they seem to fit good. I would be easy enough to make one for #10 caps for my BP revolver. I like making things on my little lathe that might actually work for what im trying to do.
Looks good. So a second die to tighten up the sides of the cap”? I have one of the commercially made cap makers and my only criticism is the sides of the cap is a bit sloppy looking. Two years ago at the NE state shoot that was all I used, homemade caps. Never had a failure. However I like to use my Cash capper and the homemades are too crude to work thru the capper. Your caps are an improvement on appearance.
Ps you do super dandy lathe work.
ardvark reloading has several videos of making your own primer compound, they have it to 100% useful
Having done this a few times,I have some questions.. Did you hand file the teeth? Why the extra push through die and punch? If you make one for musket caps you could sell them,there is some interest. I do like the nice look of what you have made. What lathe are you using?
I love knurling, nice work!! One thing I think I see is something that I have a problem with, sweaty hands. The little pieces I have made I have been sending them for a little swim in some OSPHO (Phosphoric Acid) after a glass bead but not being required. Dry very well when removed and they seem to be a little less inclined to go off. I have been wanting to try the .2 of #4 covered with a cap gun cap then sealed with hair spray run. Cap material being aluminum?
I bought a 22 Reloader cap maker a couple of years back.
The cap cups it makes work really fine made out of soda cans , pie pans and even .005" copper sheeting.
They are a little rough looking on the outside , but work great.
I made a forming plate and punch to run them thru to tighten up the outside to make them look more like a factory cap.
It is just a piece of steel plate with a hole drilled thru it.
I run the new formed caps thru it with a punch as it sits on a steel plate to flatten out the bottom of the cap.
Then push out the nicer formed cap as it sits over a block of wood with a hole drilled in it to catch the cups.
The caps fit the nipples so much better , and seem to fire better with the little dome on the cap flattened out.
Yea,
It is a little more work making the caps.
But to me , it is well worth it.
This is an excellent idea! I’m going to try this next time I make a batch of caps. What size hole are you using in the steel?
I will have to go dig out my steel plate and see what the final dimensions are on the hole in the steel plate and what size the punch I made is for pushing it thru.
This design goes back to when I was a kid back in the '70's when I made my own caps using blocks of wood with holes drilled in it to form the caps.
I went out and checked my tools that I made.
The 1/2" steel plate has a .201 hole drilled in it with a #7 drill bit.
Then I used a tapered hand reamer to widen out the one side to start the formed cup into the plate.
The punch I use is made out of an old 1/4" bolt with it turned down to .165"
This plate narrows the outside of the primer caps so they are not all raggedy flared like most cap makers produce.
They are not as perfect as a factory primer.
But they fit #11 nipples real good.
I can't post pictures right now of the set up I did.
But I will work on that and might have a friend post pictures when he comes over for me to teach him how to make his own primers.
You can probably just drill the hole in a hard block of wood.
But wood does wear out over time.
Now this plate and punch were made with a hand drill, file and long tapered hand reamer.
So you don't need to have a machine shop to make simple things like this
Thank you for the information. I will be making this set up.
Its a cheap 14 inch China mini lathe. I drilled the hole and then used a #21 reamer then countersink with a bigger drill bit so the cap would start strait. i put a taper on the top hole to help from tearing the cap. Polished it up a little bit and that was it. I used scrap steel from other projects that didn't turn out. Pretty elaborate for what it is. All you need to do is drill a hole in a pice of steel or aluminum and push the cap through, you would probably get the same results.
On the pop cans is it better to have the paint on the inside or outside or does it even matter? Does the primmer compound stick to the aluminum better than the paint?
The finish on the pop cans doesn't matter.
In fact.
There is a finish on the inside too.
I actually prefer using aluminium pie plates or disposable aluminium cooking pans for my primers.
I do use .005" thick rolled copper sheeting for some caps.
I have used .005" thick brass too.
But it is harder and more expensive.
I have not had any issues with the priming compound coming loose if I use Duco Glue thinned with Acetone or nail polish thinned with Acetone.
But I have had issues if I use straight Acetone for a binder.
I've been using doubled up beverage cans because we have quite a few of them. For the binder I've been using a single based smokeless powder dissolved in acetone. So far it seems to have worked well.
Lags is right.There is a coating on the inside of the cans. I have not seen any problem when using the pop cans either way. I always double up the can or use 36 gauge .005 brass. The brass works really well in the revolvers as they don't fragment. If you resize them you can get another shot from them. I have used all the binders.Lately I use a fast pistol powder (700X) dissolved in acetone. The only binder that has not worked is the one in the kit. Duco cement is perfect as a binder. Nearly fool proof.
Lead chucker Do you mean 14inch between centers? What is the swing? I have a Austrian made lathe from Sears its a 8" X 18"
My daughter was over today to check the sights on their rifles. She had some caps that she made last year using the supplied binder from Reloader 22. She had several that had lost the priming compound. She noted that it was the caps that had the painted side of the can inside the cap. They used the caps I had made and no misfires due to the caps. They are double layered with the silver side inside and out, painted sides together.
I’ve had better luck with the painted side on the outside of the cap. When I prep the can, I cut the bottom and top off the can, rinse thoroughly and scrub the non painted side with a scotch brite or steel wool.
roughing up the alumínium makes sense so the compound has something to stick to better. My lathe i believe is 7X14 its a little lathe.
I use the old Cap O Matic maker and use soda cans 2 of them with roll caps with 3 or 4 F BP and they go off all the time. If I remember right I used 5 roll caps . There was no delay for just the cap go off then the charge in the gun . It was all at once. One of these days I will have to try the idea of smokeless powder.
I made single stage capmakers for #10-#11 and muzzle loader caps see the thread:
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...ercussion+caps
I've tried the H48 type priming compound, its easy to make but its kinda dirty. The EPH20 is more difficult to make but is clean as commercial cap compounds.
Idz. I would like to thank you for that because if i remember right i printed that and used it to make my cap forming die. Its not perfect but works. With out your information i probably wouldnt have been able to figure it out on my own. It is a simple design but has to be done right to work. I would like to make another one that makes just a little bit longer cap. Its help from guys like you that help make our little world go around.
Instead of making the cap I use the cap from a fired shotgun primer and just run them through a punch plate. Lg rifleprimer cup workok too but are a bit shorter.
Some pics of LAGS cap maker.
1
https://i.imgur.com/Sb6Db1V.jpg
2
https://i.imgur.com/ORYDC7a.jpg
3
https://i.imgur.com/cQzyglI.jpg
This is a tool to Go With your Cap Maker.
It gives you a place to pound and form your caps.
Flatten out the metal that you use to make your caps.
You also have a plate with a hole in it to size the outside of the caps better with a punch.
The caps look more like factory caps.
Then you rotate the plate over that hole.
You punch the sized caps into that hole into a space to catch the cap.
I also drilled the block of wood to make storage spaces for the pinches and cap maker so stuff is all stored easier .
I hade made one of these tools out of a block of wood with the holes drilled into it.
It worked.
But the size of the holed to size the caps widened after a while.
And the flat spot you pound the primers down to would dent after a while.
I call this tool my Uniformer.
It improves home made Primers Caps so they can be tuned to the exact size you need to fit your nipples
Using LAGS tools, it is really easy for even idiots like me to make caps.
I got some chain fires with my Pietta 1851 Colt Navy replica that I am blaming on the improper size and shape of some of my caps. Actually not true chain fires, as they were caused by the caps slamming into the recoil shield from the cylinder recoil rather than getting ignition from the hammer fired cap or from the throat area. I use bullet lube, so that has never been an issue either.
I am going to make myself up something similar as I found out that the rounded heads on the caps made by my cap making tool makes it easier for a chain fire or actually a "slam" fire. I was using .010 brass sheeting that I found at Hobby Lobby and the caps did not fit the nipples on my revolvers very well, whether they were factory nipples or the Slix Shot nipples. Even though the cylinder rotated without the caps touching the recoil shield of the receiver, I got some "slam" fires.
I had been using the same tool for some time now to make the caps out of .008 aluminum flashing and never had a single problem. So apparently the stiffness of the cap material is critical unless one flattens the nose of the cap and improves the shape of the cap overall.
I only had a small amount of the .010 thickness brass sheet so I will use these already made up caps on my Squirrel Rifle and use thinner thickness metal for the revolver. Plus improve the overall shape of the cap as well. I do now have some .007 thickness brass sheeting as well as more .008 aluminum flashing, so I do not expect to have any further "slam" fires.
I use the .005 thick Brass Sheeting when I make the caps out of brass.
I use the same thickness Copper sheeting that I got from hobby craft store.
The only thing is.
Copper sheeting is softer.
So it is easier to tear when stamping out the caps , or running them thru my Uniformer tool.
But I too found out that when the caps are swedged thru my Uniformer.
Flattening the top of the cap makes them work better.
A lot of caps with the domed tops only work when the hammer hits them twice.
Right now,
Most of my caps are made out of double layers of soda cans and run thru my Uniformer swedger.
Copper and brass just cost too much.
Not that I don't have money.
It is just a lot of them get damaged when making them, so you waste a lot of material you paid for, and your Time.
Lags
I made up some tooling as you described and it works beautifully, to both square up the nose of the caps and smooth out the ragged sides. My caps, of all the material that I have on hand, fit much more snugly onto my nipples now and fit further up onto the nipple with an acceptable amount of pressure. I am certain that I will not be having any further problem as they act much more like a factory cap now.
Thanks again for your knack for ingenuity. You just selflessly keep helping us all enjoy this hobby more. :)
HamGunner
You are welcome.
I am glad that I can help others.
Why not make one for use with a reloading press? I have one of the old Forster Cap maker that was intended for the press to punch out caps, I also have the hammer pounding version too but I find that the reloading press is more efficient and consistent, plus less energy spent using the press than whacking it with a hammer...I've always wonder why people don't make one for use with a reloading press? You'll crank out alot of'em faster and more consistently at home.
I have thought about making my Uniformer out of some steel with a 7/8-14 thread on it and a correct sized punch that fits into the loading press ram plunger .
I do have Three reloading presses.
But this is not Something that all of us can do with a Lathe or have a machinist build it for you.
( How many of you guys have a lathe ? I use to )
I love to try and show you guys " Things" that you can do Yourself or with tools that most people do have at home, and just use scrap material.
In many ways I am trying to show you guys that you can do things fairly cheap because they are things that you don't use that much to justify a big investment in Professional Style Tools.
I use an arbor press for punching out both my caps as well as my gas checks on my simple tools. Much easier than using the palm of your hand or a mallet. A set of tools that work on a reloading press would be really nice, but it really does not take me long to punch out enough caps or gas checks to last me a good while. If I shot more or was a good bit younger, I might seek such tooling, but I am not going to be using the tooling enough to justify getting set up.
I had a cap maker made using the plans from IDZ. Best success was with energy drink cans. They seemed to be thicker than regular soda cans. I went the easy route and bought the Primer-All compound.
As mentioned in my posts above, the metal sheeting can be too thick, but it certainly can be too thin as well. I experimented with soda cans and they are around .004 thickness. One layer is too thin. Too much destruction of the caps upon firing. Two layers worked much better, but I found the two layers to be a bit of a hassle.
I have the cap making tool sold by Prime-All and it seems to like the metal to be between .006 and .008 for best results. I got less blow up of the caps when the metal is at least .006 or .007. But the head of the caps produced by the Prime-All cap maker are rounded , thus the need to further adjust them with tooling such as Lags has come up with to flatten the head.