9X57 Buck

Just got my first buck with a powder coated bullet. I have taken a few with lubed cast bullets using the 45-70 and 38-55, all of which were commercially cast or were from friends. About a year ago, I started casting again and powder coating my soft alloy 30 and 45 caliber rifle bullets. Unfortunately, I haven't started casting for my 9X57 as yet, so was using someone else's bullets. I had cleaned the lube from them and powder coated them. Surely wish they were my homemade bullets, but I just decided to shoot up what I had before casting for the 9X57.

It is a homemade 9X57 using a FN action, and a Shaw barrel. The barrel has 0.358 bore so I can use our 35 cal bullets without issues. I took a nice buck with it 3 years ago using the Hornady 250 gr RN bullet but have since made it a dedicated cast bullet rifle.

This buck was walking across a power line at about 150 yds. I misjudged the lead and hit too far forward and also shot a little low. The bullet caught him directly on the front leg barely high enough to get into his chest cavity. He ran on across the power line broke down in the front end. Although I expected to find him at the tree line, he made it more than a hundred more yards into the woods. His lungs were soup but his heart was intact. The cast bullet did it's job although I'd have hoped for a shorter death run. I have been carrying my 30 and 45 cal rifles loaded with my home cast bullets but have had no opportunities with them. I can't wait til I take a deer with the 9X57 with my own bullets in it.

For some reason, imgur wouldn't load but one of my pictures. Maybe I can show some more tomorrow....

https://i.imgur.com/R8Mts7al.jpg

Good write up! With that shot, one would think that he wouldn't have ran so far.

good shooting!!!!

'His lungs were soup' That boolit really did its job, being hit so low. Great job and good for you. Were these pretty soft boolits to expand well, and was there an exit hole? It is incredible the will of some deer to live, while other drop on the spot. Glad for your success.

Hey Hook; Good deer, Congrats! Mo Photo's would be nice, & maybe some on that Shoot'n Iron 2. & again Congrats!

Congratulations. That same cartridge is on my dream list. Ive always been an 8x57mm fan and that just seems like the next step up. I'd also like to see better pics of the rifle!

Sent from my SM-A716U using Tapatalk

Imgur decided to cooperate this morning!

https://i.imgur.com/Nf9fc88l.jpg

Cut the deer up this morning and had a chance to see the damage a little better. The bullet is commercial hard cast and did not expand much or at all. The damage was apparently due to the large meplat. Here is the exit side:

https://i.imgur.com/mbjqXc6l.jpg

Pretty clean with little meat loss. The leg was not broken. Here is the entrance side...you might notice a little difference:

https://i.imgur.com/OhTfUPol.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/MMsTT0Hl.jpg

Notice in the interior pic that the ribs were split apart most of the way to the spine. That large meplat must have put a heckova whack on the deer. Lost all but the top portion of that shoulder. That leg was as limp as a noodle. I'm still in awe that the rascal managed to go as far as he did. As stated, the heart was undamaged. Not sure how that could be considering all that went on around it, but I am happy that it is in a ziplock bag in my refrigerator.

It retrospect, I wish it had been one of my home cast bullets. I've been totin' my M54 Winchester 30 WCF and my Marlin 1895, both with my home cast powder coated bullets, but no deer has offered a shot while doing so. Decided to carry the 9X57 as a change of pace and....bingo!

Aint they got some will to get away
That is a nice shot and a heck of alot of damage
good score

Hi, Many here have compared my .375 JDJ rifle to the 9.3x57. Your 9mm is very close so I wonder if you can provide me some load data: Bullet weight, powder, etc. Thank you.

First off congrats on the harvest. The 9 X 57 is one of my favorites and I have....oh my, 3. A Sauer & Sohn on a 98, a Jaeger drilling in 9 X 57R and most recently a Haenel/Rasch on an 1890. Love 'em all!

You mention the large meplat. I don't know how many deer and hogs I've taken with cast bullets over both smokeless and black powders. My considered opinion and experience is nothing more than a large for caliber meplat is necessary for cast bullets the be as effective in their killing as any hollow point/tip/nose cast bullet or the most expensive, premium jacketed bullets.

@Hook, congratulations on rifle and deer.

I have slowed my Hard cast Boolits down to under 1800 FPS in both CF and MLs, to avoid the damage you show. I like to eat up to the boolit hole.

When I ordered my first Mold from LBT years ago, I was lucky enough to have a phone conversation with Verel. He told me that with a good Meplat of over .250, 1500 FPS was close to optomal. He has a formula on DV is his Book, "Jacketed performance from cast" I try to follow it and my results have been rewarding.

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Originally Posted by Jim22

Hi, Many here have compared my .375 JDJ rifle to the 9.3x57. Your 9mm is very close so I wonder if you can provide me some load data: Bullet weight, powder, etc. Thank you.

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Jim, you have a PM.

Thanks all for the comments!

Sharps, you were in on the conversation (about 3 years ago) over on the German Gun Forum when I was picking everyone's brain about loading for this caliber. Information from you and Axel was most welcome. In fact, I used Axel's load for the 250 gr Hornady RN to take my first deer with this rifle.

https://i.imgur.com/xNQ3DSgl.jpg

Since then, I've made this rifle a dedicated cast bullet rifle. The load used on the deer last week was a 246 gr cast bullet over H4895 at 2050 fps.

Screwbolts, my velocity is for trajectory, not necessarily killing power. The damage to this buck was due to poor bullet placement. As I think I said in the OP, he was walking at a fast clip across an easement about 150 yards away, and I had to make a quick shot. I obviously led him a bit too much and also managed to hit lower than desired. A lung shot was my intent. Note the exit hole through the upper leg on the right shoulder. It shows a near caliber bullet hole and almost no meat damage because that bone wasn't touched. Hitting the major shoulder bones on entry caused a heckova explosion. But, based on the exit hole, the bullet didn't expand much or at all. It is pretty hard cast. My current home cast bullets use a softer alloy around 10-12 BHN.

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Originally Posted by Hook

Jim, you have a PM.

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Hook,

Thank you very much. This data will go into my .375 JDJ file. Very nice deer.

Screwbolts, over the last couple decades I've done the same, as well as softened my alloy a little. I figure 1650 fps-1800 fps more than adequate and around 12 BHN as good a performer as the 15 BHN I shot for years.

Hook, now that you mention it, I remember that. Axel, he's sumthin', he is!!!

I read your post a couple times and didn't see what the bullet weight was. Did you mention it or am I going blind? I use the RCBS 35-200 and size it twice. First time I gas check it and lube it at .357. Then just run it through a .355 die. I could probably shoot it at .357....I need to check. Just this morning I tried a 240 gr., Accurate, gas checked bullet at .356 over IMR-4064. It didn't shoot with the RCBS with 4064.

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Originally Posted by sharps4590

Hook, now that you mention it, I remember that. Axel, he's sumthin', he is!!!

I read your post a couple times and didn't see what the bullet weight was. Did you mention it or am I going blind? I use the RCBS 35-200 and size it twice. First time I gas check it and lube it at .357. Then just run it through a .355 die. I could probably shoot it at .357....I need to check. Just this morning I tried a 240 gr., Accurate, gas checked bullet at .356 over IMR-4064. It didn't shoot with the RCBS with 4064.

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It was a commercially cast and lubed 246 gr flat point that I cleaned and then powder coated. It was loaded to 2050 fps. In my case, I have no need for a '9mm' bullet because I built my 9X57 using a .358" barrel. These bullets came without gas checks, so I added them, powder coated the bullets, and sized to .359". I have also tried some 190 gr 'Ranch Dog' type bullets that came in a trade a while back. Also cleaned and powder coated, these bullets shoot just as well as the 246 grainers.

I have a new, as yet unused, Lee 200 gr flat point mold for future use.

BTW, I'm pretty sure you could use those bullets of yours at .357" as long as the loaded round will fit into the chamber neck OK. I size all my 30 caliber rifle bullets at .311 with excellent results. Cast bullets 2-4 thousandths over bore size are not at all uncommon.

Good morning and Congratulations !
Some good photos of what a FN will do ! And that is why they work so well.

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Originally Posted by sharps4590

Screwbolts, over the last couple decades I've done the same, as well as softened my alloy a little. I figure 1650 fps-1800 fps more than adequate and around 12 BHN as good a performer as the 15 BHN I shot for years.

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yep, i have to agree with that. in my 444, i use a 300gr fn gc(saeco) that is around 12bhn(1624fps) and my 30-40 krag with a 165gr ranch dog that is 12bhn(1930fps). in my 35/30-30 uses a 200gr fn gc that is around 15bhn(1726fps) and my 9.3x57 with a 270gr wfn gc is 15bhn(1800+/-fps, forgot the chrony).

most of my shoots are 50 yards and under, but i have killed a doe at 150+/- yards with the krag. my oldest son has the furthest record(me and the boys) on cast boolits, 173 yards on a doe with the krag also. all of my and sons cast boolit kills are thru and thru. but then, i aim behind the shoulder, 1/3 of the way up.

Hook, I fired teh 240 gr. loads yesterday. Then remembered to try one of the RCBS 35-200 as cast, in the case neck. Nope, ain't gonna be usin' it without sizing it.

444, where I live now nearly all my shots are within 75 yards. Last deer I killed was at about 30 feet, with a 54 cal., Jack Garner, Leman flintlock.....I think...lol!

@Hook, and all. I know my trajectory of my loads regardless of the projectile weight and diameter, and were to hold at my chosen velocity in the firearm I choose to carry at the time.. You don't need a mildot type scope either, just an understanding gained from reading the manuals that came with the scopes for 6 decades of using them. A simple duplex is a ranging device if understood and gives you multiple options of aiming points.

Some do, no IMHO, many do, use velocity as a crutch. Yes I live on my own 200 yard range, the furthest shooting bench from my shop door is less than a 60 yard walk. Many boolitz meet plates behind my house. My driveway just happens to be 300' long and I learned years a go that plowed up snow makes perfect boolit back stops. During the winter months I have a plowed 100 yard range available without walking threw snow.

K

That is the way to do it, SB. No matter what the trajectory of your bullet, a hunter needs to know what it is and to know what limitations it causes. I choose to use a higher velocity, even though it makes only a small difference in POI out to 200 yards, just because the powder coating makes it easier. I also choose to shoot deer through the chest cavity to avoid meat loss and it was only my failure to hit properly that caused the meat loss in this kill.

I also shoot my loads out to 200 yards just to insure I know the POI. Unfortunately, I only have a 100 yard range on my property and have to load up everything and go to the hunting lease to shoot farther. It's a little bit of a bother but is still fun....and, I can assure myself what the load is actually doing beyond 100 yds. I have no intention of shooting at a deer beyond that distance with cast although I probably could stretch the effective distance a little if I wanted. When you get beyond 150 yards or so, regardless of having a slightly higher muzzle velocity, bullet drop increases too rapidly with small increment of distance. This isn't a problem when clanging steel and there is plenty of time to consider bullet drop, but in hunting conditions it can cause problems getting a killing hit. As I stated, The deer was rapidly walking across the easement and I had to make a snap shot. If he'd been farther away, I would have had no time to consider trajectory and made the necessary adjustment in hold over.

Again, it was my poor shooting that resulted in the unnecessary meat loss. My intent of posting the pictures was to illustrate the effectiveness of a cast flat nose. There were two surprising results from that experience. First, that the deer went as far as he did considering the damage done. He crossed the remainder of the easement plowing the ground with his chest. He was going down a steep hill which helped his progress. I assumed he would be dead at the treeline of the easement. Somehow, he managed to make it another 100 yds or so after leaving my sight. Second, despite the massive damage all around it, the heart was untouched! I grilled it Friday evening and it was excellent. The rest of the meat is still aging and I'll cut it up tomorrow afternoon.

It is amazing how far they can go! Did you get the pump station unhooked with that hit or at least leaking from bone schraptnal? Lots of pre ground meat there. Moving target, Good shot!

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Originally Posted by sharps4590

444, where I live now nearly all my shots are within 75 yards. Last deer I killed was at about 30 feet, with a 54 cal., Jack Garner, Leman flintlock.....I think...lol!

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most of my shots are under 50 yards. i shot an eight point at 10-12 feet with my ruger #1 in 270 win with 130gr nosler bt. i shot him in the shoulder and it was lungs and heart soup. the bullet fragmented apart when it hit the shoulder bone. there was no exit hole, the fragments stopped before the inside ribs on the exit side. i had to throw entrance wound shoulder away. it was big reason why i went to cast.

https://i.imgur.com/FP1RbOG.jpg?1

btw, the buck ran about 20 - 25 yards after the shot. there was no snow or blood trail in the thicket. i "found" him just before i could step on him. lol!!!

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Originally Posted by Screwbolts

It is amazing how far they can go! Did you get the pump station unhooked with that hit or at least leaking from bone schraptnal? Lots of pre ground meat there. Moving target, Good shot!

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No sir! The heart was unscratched! And, I had to cut it loose from the plumbing to get it out.

this is what 200gr rcbs(.359") fn gc and 2400/dacron looks like at 100 yards.......

https://i.imgur.com/nBFtFB6.jpg

444, is that the 180 gr RCBS? My version weighs 188 gr with my soft alloy, gas checked and powder coated. They are very accurate in all my 30 cal rifles except, strangely enough, my 03A3 and it's 4 groove barrel. Taking a deer with one of them is my next goal, cast bullet wise.

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Originally Posted by Hook

444, is that the 180 gr RCBS? My version weighs 188 gr with my soft alloy, gas checked and powder coated. They are very accurate in all my 30 cal rifles except, strangely enough, my 03A3 and it's 4 groove barrel. Taking a deer with one of them is my next goal, cast bullet wise.

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no, its a 200gr rcbd fn gc in 35 cal. i sent my 30-30 lever action to JES Reboring and it came back a 35/30-30(its a 3 groove rifle). i put on a new williams fp aperture sight too. my load is a 200gr rcbs fn gc with 20.0gr of 2400/tuft of dacron going 1726fps. i shot one doe at 25+/- yards and she ran about 20+/- yards until she gave up the ghost. i was impressed with the wound channel. the entry wound was right behind the front shoulder(1/3 of the way up) and its exit wound was 2 or 3 ribs were broken right behind the exit wound. its lungs were smashed and its blood trail, which wasn't needed, was like a man with two ketchup bottles were plastering trees while running threw the woods. the alloy is lyman #2 and just a smidge of tin.

i use a 30-40 krag and 165gr ranch dog(173gr is act wgt). i use 10 coww and a smidge of tin. i and my son have killed around 13-15 deer and in every case, the deer didn't run after the shot. my oldest son holds the record(me and two sons) on how far that it was killed while using cast boolits, it was 173 yards(using a laser range finder) when he killed the doe.

i also have the 30 rem and the 7.65x53(.311") in 30 cal that i have kill a deer with.




http://www.35caliber.com/

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Originally Posted by 444ttd

no, its a 200gr rcbd fn gc in 35 cal.

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Well, I guess it would help if I paid closer attention. Sorry, just had 30 ca on my mind and didn't notice '0.359"'!

I am familiar with JES's work, having two Marlins rebored to 38-55. Excellent work on both of them.