Your best powder for 38 sp and 357 mag for use in Carbines.

I'm about to buy some more powder for 38sp and 357. Currently I have 2400, Universal, Titegroup and Lovex D03.6 here in the UK.
I don't use much Universal and titegroup as, TBH, it's too time consuming to individually weigh out the really small charges for indoor gallery ranges where I have to keep the mv down below 1400 fps, I have to do this as the flakes don't meter well and don't seem consistent when using the dippers.
I find I use quite a bit of the Lovex powder as it's very dense and I can throw remarkably consistent charges with a modified Lee dipper to get low velocity then just double them to get full house 357 loads.
I use the 2400 to stoke up the 357 but the lovex powder virtually matches them and it's so much cheaper.
Lovex also do two more handgun powders D037.1 and D037.2, which I've not used yet, with the latter equalling or surpassing 2400 and at lower listed pressures as well.
Lovex is sold in the states as shooters world powder, don't know how it's priced over there but it may be worth a punt as I know I'm impressed with it.
FWIW I use small rifle primers in my 38 and 357 loads.

In my revolver I use almost exclusively Bullseye with 130 gr boolits while in a carbine I use almost exclusively AA-9 with 180 gr WFN's. The Bullseye load (4.6 gr) with the 130's in a carbine is very accurate as well (minute of popcan) out to 125 yards and beyond which is great for plinking or small game. Given your powders, I would try the Titegroup. I use small rifle primers as well.

2400 or IMR 4227 in the carbine. Both of those powders are slow enough to use the barrel length.

try be-86 and let us know how it works for you, for me its the cats meow for 125 grain cast hollow points in the old rossi92

Another vote for Bullseye (4.5grs) and the lee 125 rnfp. Solid 3moa 100yd load out of 2 Rossi 92's, runs just a hair over 1200fps..

For maximizing velocities in .38special with 158 grain projectiles, I use Hercules BlueDot. It is a flake powder, but it is a good burn rate compromise between the too slow 2400 and the too fast Universal. I can get another 100-200 fps more in a carbine with the BlueDot powder under the 158 grain projectile. 2400 will do well too, but runs the risk of developing too high a pressure spike if the ammunition is accidentally fired in an older pistol, and therefor is an unacceptable liability in that cartridge. 2400 absolutely requires more barrel length to capitalize on its properties. Even if the particular charge weight was safe in a modern pistol, the short barrel would not allow the 2400 load to develop as much velocity as the BlueDot or even the Universal. However, in .357, the 2400 powder is an ideal choice.

Still Bullseye here. I only load target ammo in the .38 - 3.0 grains with up to 158 grain SWC.

if I want power I load a different cartridge.

Can you even get Bullseye over there?

Bullseye is REACH compliant but is like rocking horse crap to find, ditto unique, all of those quick burning powders carry a premium of between 15 and 25% over the lovex equivalent which is not insignificant nowadays.
The other issue I have is measuring flake powder, despite me trying to perfect my technique, with Lee dippers the charge can vary significantly, I won't bs about it but they can vary in the order of 10% by weight which isn't great, hence I prefer to weigh each charge which turns the reloading process from 90 minutes per 100 rounds to over 2 hours which pisses me off. Loads of about 3 grains are a bit hit and miss thru my lee perfect powder measure so I won't use that.
What method do you all use to measure such small charges?

No one has mentioned it but can you get Unique?

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Originally Posted by braddock

Bullseye is REACH compliant but is like rocking horse crap to find, ditto unique, all of those quick burning powders carry a premium of between 15 and 25% over the lovex equivalent which is not insignificant nowadays.
The other issue I have is measuring flake powder, despite me trying to perfect my technique, with Lee dippers the charge can vary significantly, I won't bs about it but they can vary in the order of 10% by weight which isn't great, hence I prefer to weigh each charge which turns the reloading process from 90 minutes per 100 rounds to over 2 hours which pisses me off. Loads of about 3 grains are a bit hit and miss thru my lee perfect powder measure so I won't use that.
What method do you all use to measure such small charges?

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I use RCBS Dandy powder measures for small pistol charges. They have been very accurate even with flake powders.

I've always weighed every charge, whether 3 grains or 60. Use an old RCBS Uniflow measure, drop a charge in the pan, set it on the scale. While the beam settles I'm seating a bullet in the previous case. Then eyes go back to scale - trickle if necessary, dump the weighed charge into the next empty case, tweak the drum setting if I see a trend, drop a new charge in the pan and set it on the balance, turn to seating the bullet in the case I just charged. The time it takes for the scale to settle is thus not wasted. I never have more than one open case in front of me wth a charge in it, so it's real hard to double charge a case. I don't try for speed, but I'd be surprised if I weren't loading close to 100 rounds an hour, once I get my rhythm going. This of course doesn't count time for case prep, which is done in large batches, maybe a day or a week before I set to actually assernbling my rounds.

Marvel shooter, unique can be sold over here, buying it is the issue.
More and more of the people I talk reloading with are turning to european powders which hitherto had been in the shadow of the american blends due in no small part to the amount of reloading information available from the US. The internet has changed this, Vihtavuouri powders are not alone with excellent websites and the other european manufacturers are fast catching up.
What is noticeable in the US supplied data is the extremely broad range of projectile weights data is compiled for but barely any for cast boolits where the boolit weight can vary considerably for the different density of the alloy used,I just wish the likes of Lee could spend some time compiling cast bullet loads as the lyman cast bullet manual tends to focus on their product -not unreasonably I hasten to add - but an irritant nevertheless - rant over!
Another problem is the war in Ukraine which is soaking up much of production, especially primers but massive imports of Brazilian primers are filling the void.
I understand now about the measurement of charges and I have several modified dippers that come close to the mark when dealing with the relatively small amounts of powder for 38 special but they will probably have to change as I use up my supplies of US powder and buy European stuff instead. Pity really as I'll have to find a Euro substitute for 2400 which I use in reduced cast boolit loads in 223, 30/30 and 308 as well as in 357.

Bullseye for the Special and WW296 for the Magnum.

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Loads of about 3 grains are a bit hit and miss thru my lee perfect powder measure so I won't use that.
What method do you all use to measure such small charges?

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I load on a Progressive press with different size bushings. Bullseye is a very fine flake powder and meters dead on every time, not even a tenth variation. My Reading powder measure with the pistol chamber does the same. Make a simple scoop out of a small pistol case. An empty 22lr case holds approx 3.0 grs of Bullseye. Simply solder a heavy wire to it.

Ramshot True Blue can work for both.

In my 357 rifles, I've had a lot of good results with IMR4227. In my experience, it works best with heavier bullets.

VN sells equivalent powders to 231 and H-110/296. If you have a VN manual you can cross reference the 38 Spl and 357 loads and velocities. You would need to work the accuracy in your guns for yourself.

I have several VN powders but, due to import fees it is expensive here VS US made powders. I am sure the reverse is true in Europe or the UK.

You can also use the two reloading sites to compare loads, Hodgdon and VN. With a 357 mag rifle, I load them as a rifle, not as a handgun, with heavy bullets and rifle primers. Set the OAL to clear a revolver cylinder so it will work through a lever action.

I was using Trail Boss but that seems to be no longer available, so I switched to 4227. I think I like it even better.

If you’re loading pistol calibers, you really need a progressive loader with a good small cavity measure. I prefer fixed cavities as they don’t wander or get misadjusted. Lots of choices out there …

I still like tightgroup in handgun cartridges.. and it seems to matter not if they go out a carbine barrel.

I’ve been using a lot of HS6. It works well in almost every pistol cartridge that I load for. 38, 357, 44 special and magnum, 45 acp, 45 colt and 480 ruger.

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Originally Posted by Froogal

I was using Trail Boss but that seems to be no longer available, so I switched to 4227. I think I like it even better.

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Six shooter or rifle. Makes no difference. .38 specials all get loaded the same.

Since Lovex powders sound more available and less expensive for you, I'd just recommend you stick with them.

D032.03 (sold here as Clean Shot, also known as Accurate #2) would be ideal for .38 Special. D036.03 ("Auto Pistol", aka Accurate #5) would also work well, and would probably give you a bit more velocity.

D037.02 ("Heavy Pistol", aka Accurate #9) is excellent for .357 magnum. D037.01 ("Major Pistol", aka Accurate #7) also works very well in .357 mag, but you won't get quite the velocity as you will with D037.02.

Thanks, Mike. I've been checking out the Lovex inventory and, perhaps more importantly, what my LGS has in stock.
They have o/d on S040 which is intended for 22 hornet or 30 M1 carbine but is at the similar burn rate to 4227/H4198/W296 and N110. They list 44 mag loads for it so I've sent off an e-mail to Lovex asking after filling 357 mag and 30/30 with it as it's on blowout due to not selling at the GS.
The GS also has D036, D073.1 and D073.2
I have enough 38/357 ammo to last a few range trips and enough powder to reload them twice more so I'm in no great rush to get some more it's just I prefer to have stuff on my shelf as opposed to the GS shelf.
There's plenty vihtavuori N110 around but it tends to be as expensive as Hodgdon and Winchester powder and I've never really had clean burning with the Vh powder in my 308 though everything else about them eg consistency in loads is excellent.