Thank YOU, for the heads up...now I know where to begin my search. If I walked into my local hardware and asked for bird repellent I would get pointed to the ammunition aisle. :lol:
Printable View
Thank YOU, for the heads up...now I know where to begin my search. If I walked into my local hardware and asked for bird repellent I would get pointed to the ammunition aisle. :lol:
I got it at Amazon
Link http://www.amazon.com/Tanglefoot-300...Bird+Repellent
Don
Let me offer a respectful word of caution if I may....
I retired from the polyethylene manufacturing end of the oil business. There are many, many, many types of polyethylene! Then sub categories in each - - Low Density, High Density... on and on.... for an example. Then you have your off test.... Worth pennies on the dollar. And of course recycled.
I suggest to you that polybutene is somewhat similar.. My experience as mentioned before in polybutene manufacture is dated, but there were many types and applications even back then. A quick check of this supplier listed a lot of grades and I bet there are more.
http://www.soltexinc.com/polybutenes-PL.cfm
If you are going to manufacture a plastic garbage can you are going to get off test and probably recycled polyethylene of some sort to make them. $$$ is the paramount concern.
If you are going to manufacture a bird deterrent from some sort of 'sticky' i.e. polybutene, then $$$ savings and being sticky are your main concerns. And we talk about toilet rings being of questionable material and the same from one purchase to the next!
It seems we (no I'll take this brunt on my shoulders) It seems I tend to be like the old plow horses with side blinders on to just look ahead.
Several of us have considerable experience on mobile equipment lubrication and some with manufacturing machinery lubrication as well. So we know what the best lube is right? Sorry.... but not always. We are trying to engineer an 'Extreme' boolit lube so we draw from our experience. The side blinders keep us from putting the parameters of boolit lube first over what works the best on machines.
Oils..... are engineered normally for continuous operation. Lets say a good 15w-40 DELO motor oil and Dexron III ATF.
These oils are engineered to perform their best in hot conditions.. Let's say 200F in round numbers. These same oils are engineered to tolerate cold conditions for short periods. (prior to reaching operating temp.) These oils are designed for many millions of cycles or rotations. Does this sound like boolit lube parameters?
Boolit lube is used once.... One passage down the bore. Boolit lube functions basically cool, even cold in operation as compared to oil in a hot diesel engine or automatic trans.
So if we are going to compare what a boolit lube needs to function best what can we compare it too? Chain bar oil is engineered (Yes engineered, not some goo with sticky added) to operate cool to cold. It basically is a one time application like our boolit lube. It's pumped on the bar, lubes some, and is flung off or drug off in the saw cut and replaced with new....
When you think about it with eye blinders off it is one of the few lubricants that has parameters close to boolit lube.
Naphthenic base means nil pariffinic oils and good low temp pour points. It likes the cool and cold. Manufactured by a good oil company (usually in Iso 68, 100, 150, and 220 vis)
Stihl doesn't make their oil. (however them or any other big name saw manufacturer is not going to use lousy formulations because of their own reputation) Then also the polybutene addition is the best type for cold operation not hot operation as crankcase types highly toted.
It may be far from the best, even far from 'Extreme' but it's working the best for me at this time in our journey....
Eutectic
That's exactly how I have felt about MML and it's slight variants for the past couple years....I was happy until you guys put all these crazy notions back into my head....there are 3 of you that I blame personally :lol: I hope yall feel bad....NOT
It took me a couple of years and about $600 bucks in materials + all the ammo for testing to shake it out the first time...I have a feeling this time will be easier to shake though. Keep up the good work some of us are watching intently.
one of the things that Ian and myself have been discussing lately has been the waxes and such NOT being consistent.
one of us get's ahold of something, then the next order is different,different enough we lose duplication from batch to batch.
nevermind when we share something and it then has to be modified to make it "the same".
if we come up with the recipe, and order a big batch of stuff, we aren't even sure what we get will be close enough to duplicate the origional batch with some modification.
that's why i have been trying to work with base type grocery store ingredients as much as possible,and staying away from hobby store stuff.
at some point we will have to look at cosmetic [or lab] grade stuff for consistency sake alone.
untill then we will have to work with ingredients that can be used and discarded.
once the right ingredients are found then the "investment" is warranted to clean things up.
Wow, that there is some serious seriousness......makin my brain hurt again ya are. You had better get the marching orders out to them there bees to get their act together. :lol: I think I will stick with my imperfect MMl until YOU GUYS figger it all out....WOW.
mike seriously...
Ian sent me a sample of some wax i made a diagnosis on it.
he then tells me it took 500-f.
howenhek does b-wax take 500-f even if it's refined and purified.
i had a small puck of it here that i used to identify the wax he sent.
i am gonna have to see if it will take that same [or good nuff to get the additives in] temp.
he says he doesn't think so, even though it acts like b-wax tastes like b-wax and smells the same as refined b-wax.
okay then, what is it?
besides the wax that will do what we want/need if we can find it.
Your parameters also sound like 2-stroke motor oils for liquid cooled engines. (which is probably why you've already explored them). Once-through use, temperature should max-out at about 150°F and ideally run at about 100°F. Although there is a small part of the rings and piston crown that will get considerably hotter, at the exhaust "valve", so the lube must also resist readily turning into goo or hard carbon that would jam the ring(s) into the groove(s).
Maybe the super-duty synthetic wonder-lube is actually "too good" for bullet lube?
Synthetic 2-cycle snowmobile oil.
Hi Splatter,
I still explore the ester 2 stroke oil. As they run clean in the 2-stroke engines they also have a cleaning affect added to boolit lubes.
They can make a boolit lube 'slick quick' though! So I look at smaller percentages for future formulation.
Now I like to think of the ester oil like it is a strong spice..... A little is an improvement... but too much? I think you know what I'm saying.
Eutectic
I wonder if the ultimate end product will have multiple oils and additives in small amounts. Each one brings a small bit to the formula yet none in large enough amounts to bring their own personal drama.
Waxes and the "base" as a whole may be likewise. No one product has the right properties but a mix of a few may do the trick.
The point that boolit lube is a single-use item is important. This is why I don't have any concerns over things like VI modifiers breaking down under shearing forces because after a 24" trip it really won't matter anymore.
Bar and chain oil can be soaped quite easily, and is a good plasticizer for waxes. Definitely on my "need to try more" list.
How's this sound: Grease made with bar oil sweetened with about 2-3% ester two-stroke oil, soaped at 30%, then mixed in with beeswax at about a 40% ratio?
Gear
well the high soap is a replay of the origional idea we were working with when we started using the lith and aluminum stearates.
soaping up a poa oil with a different stearate would be a good variation and also might avoid some of the wax issues we have been having.
if we "only" need 350-f to get the job done we might could modify a b-wax with some other [shaping] wax to make everything homogenous.
i can easily get my mineral oil soap gel into b-wax with no discoloration.
if i heat it to the "steam" off point of the mineral oil it will easily mix together without scorching.
40% would give the lube a very similar vi to joes.
this might be a good place to throw some other stearate into the mix to help control the oil.
Stihl offers three different Bar & Chain oils.
I was able to find the following locally for 12 bucks/gallon:
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oil...nts/wdcttroil/
Is this the good stuff? Anyone know what's in the "Woodcutter" brand vs. this stuff:
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/oil...ants/chainoil/
MJ
Ok you guys have got me interested again, I did not know that there were so many chain saw bar oils. But I would think that the winter variety would be the way to go especially if you would want cold weather preformance for you boolit lube.
RB
I would bet that that there will be real close to the end result of all this. I still think if the right microwax was found the beeswax could be done away with either partially or completely. I made a pretty fair lube with nothing more than microwax430 and that super slick engine assemply goop...it was not hot weather friendly but the experiment proved noteworthy and a little "soap" and/or a different grade of microwax could have made it more "hot" friendly. That micro+superslick lube was also one of the cleanest "lack of smoke" lubes I have ever fired. Pure microwax #430 shot great by itself until the velocity was increased to the point shere you simply ran out of "slick" in a long barrel.
It would appear the different beeswaxes (the real thing only) would be the same in our lubes more often than would be various lots of microwaxes, which by nature would be different unless controlled not to be by a single source. In other words, keep feed stock variables in mind when choosing a component. ... felix