Thanks for the link, I'll study it
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Thanks for the link, I'll study it
Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
A good while back I bought some Hy-Tek coated bullets from Missouri Bullets for my 30.06. Haven't gotten 'round to loading/using them yet. They are red. How do I tell if it is the "Metallic" red or not?
They are BHN 18. Assuming (hoping) it is the Metallic Red they are coated with; what would max accurate velocity be??
Thanks,
Vettepilot
Hold them outside in the sunlight.
If they sparkle, ie: look like metalflake paint, they have the metallic component.
Old thread... but figured I would revive with a couple basic questions:
1. I had some problems with some 40 cal bullets failing smash test using Gun Metal. Any chance I could lube over these bullets to prevent leading? Really don’t want to start over...
2. Switching to Black color for my 300 BO 500gr bullets. First coat is super thin. Passes smash test with no flaking. Same on 2nd. Failed on 3rd coat. Huh? Maybe I didn’t see the flakes on first coat cause it was so thin? I purposely diluted the Black color with almost 2x Acetone to make sure it was thin. Let it sit for 30 minutes with a small fan on them before I put in oven. Temp in the 70’s here with some humidity.
I should add that the flakes are very small on the 40 cal but noticeable - little specs. The “flakes” on the 300BO bullets are almost unnoticeable - like powder dots.
You can grease lube (if they have grease grooves) no worries.
Even with a fan, they may still be moist under the coating. use a fan heater to pre-warm them or place the tray on top of the oven while it is getting up to temp. this will warm the bullets and should solve you flaking issues.
djryan13
The small or little specs, are the removal of tops of tiny bubbles formed in coating during baking.
These bubbles are a result of moisture trying to escape from coating, and being set in cured coatings. They are like tiny domes, millions of them. It is called "Orange Skin"
That symptom is due to trapped moisture and inadequate drying before coated cast was placed inside oven.
I was going to mention that if you use twice as much acetone as you stated,you will need to allow a longer drying time, I tried that trick once and it never worked for me. I imagine your 500gr bullets in a 300 BO was a typo. Regards Stephen
Warm your bullets..... they should be warm to the touch before entering the oven...that way you know there is no moisture trapped under the coating...
Dang... really hoping 30mins was enough dry time. Worst thing I see is that you can’t tell when they are dry.
30 mins is enough time if they are around 120 deg F, I never have problems with this time /temp combo.
If this is true, Hi Tek really needs to change the instructions cause 10min at room temp clearly is way off... no talk of warming bullets. Very disappointed cause as I said above, it wasn’t until 3rd coat that I noticed small powder sized dots after smash test. I fear you can’t see the dots after first coat cause there is so little color.
djryan,
First, hoping and wishing is not quite a procedure.
The coating method, advises that the coating must be totally dry before baking. How long it takes, is like how long is a piece of string without a measuring tape. It is not possible to cover and allow every environmental conditions.
There is instructions, to test bake a few first before the bulk is baked. That is how you determine dryness adequacy. This blog site has hundreds of posts advising that warm air drying will work and speed up production rates and eliminate environmental issues.
That is common sense advice. If that advice is not accepted, no wonder things go wrong.
Second, no one instructed you, including in any coating instructions, to make up your own brew to use without first trying to find out why things are not working out.
Your version/modification of coating mix, only confused the situation, as you really do not know what is the original problem was that caused failures.
99% of failures are caused by people trying to do doings "their way", and not be aware and or ignore instructions. When they get failures, instead of reading instructions to find answers, they go on the attack on blog sites such as this.
The worst thing I can see is, your trying to blame a product and not your methods used.
djryan
The 10 minute drying is initial drying to get rid of Acetone from coatings. As I and others advised, drying must be adjusted to suit conditions and production rates.
On instructions, it is clearly stated, that if first coat fails tests, do not coat again until you find out why there is failures.
People think, that by applying more coatings and more heat, that any problems found can be solved.
With your inability to see colour, was a situation you caused.
No one advised, including coating advice, for you to dilute your coating down to a level where you could not carry out adequate quality control.
That is why you needed 3 coats to see your results as obtained. So again, you blame the product and instructions. Sorry, but not just nor acceptable complaint.
People go their own route because they find tips on this site and hope the tips work (like I am thinking of heating the bullets up now - that’s not in instructions either). The dilution was a tip I saw here. I don’t blame product but the 10min minimum in instructions is a bit confusing and misleading. I would like to know the conditions where 10 mins actually works??? Please consider spending a little more time understanding your customer and understand that folks don’t want to have to run 20 experiments to get things working. There should be a “this method always works” and if that means preheating bullets or waiting 24hrs, then put that in instructions so new folks can hit the ground running with a working process... then later they can play around to make things more efficient.
Thanks for reply.
With coating instructions, I am investigating what instructions you were supplied.
As I stated, many times previously the instructions are a guideline of what is required both with application and quality control aspects.
User must determine with equipment used as to what works in their situation.
I have no control over weather, ovens, humidity, rain, temperatures, solvents used, quantity of product being coated, volume of coating applied, shakin/coating times, etc etc.
I am only a newbie at this, as I only have been going this for 26 plus years.
I really don't know what my customers need. Sorry.....
It is bad form to mention how vast your experience is when a customer who spent $150 on your products gives a recommendation or suggestion. It implies you don’t feel there is anything that can or should be improved. Clearly not the case when there are a lot of customers with issues. I have 2 engineering masters degrees - I am not an uneducated man. I am not being rude or pissy.
I read and reread the High Performance instructions. I read and reread the threads on this forum. Multiple people have suggested using heat to warm the bullets. I have read elsewhere that that can dry it too fast. There has got to be a set of instructions that will always work (even if that means I wait a year for this to dry). That is my suggestion. Put something in instructions that should always work. Obviously you can have instructions like “not higher than xx% humidity”... but be specific and stop with the test this and this and this and this...
Unfortunately no such detailed, with all conditions being covered advice instruction is possible.
No one has humidity meters, and every one is in different climatic and variable conditions, use different equipment, and produce different volumes of product.
The instructions already advise users to test bake a couple to determine adequate dryness. Further instructions advise, that if with test samples, if the first coat fails, continue drying the rest, and testing a only a couple at intervals, until a pass is achieved. What is so difficult with that, and why would any one need more advice?
I am really at a loss, why you are being so aggressive with these matters. I am suspecting another agenda afoot.
I discovered that this coating is not 1,2,3. Just like casting. You have to find what works for you. Imagine your the member in Finland! I had all kinds of problems until I learned to let my 1st coat dry overnight or 24 hrs before I had success. I had to cast my first bullets 5 times till I got it right. Since it's winter here I'm experimenting with Petander's method minus the acid bath. If it doesn't work you can always remelt and try again. It is a bit frustrating not getting the expected results. There are a bunch of folks using this coating and I can't imagine going back to conventional lube in my 9mm. I shot a couple hundred conventional lubed in my 1911 yesterday and can't imagine going to PC or Hitek
You are reading aggression in where there is none. You are thinking the worst here. I am not offering technical advice. I am offering business advice. Please call my cell. Sent to IM.
Thank you for reply.
I am not the only one who had arrived at similar observations with regards your posts, and others made comments, questioning, why you had made certain comments, and these observations and concerns were supplied directly to me via PM messages.
I had looked at your PM, and offer made, for me to make contact with you on your mobile.
Thanks for that opportunity.
At this stage, I would prefer if you made contact with your supplier, ( I have to assume at this stage it is Hiperformancebulletcoatings LLC) and discuss your concerns and provide business advice.
If there are any business related matters that are required to be further discussed with me afterwards, the agent will pass on details.
I would be happy to consider and investigate any constructive advice.
Thanks & regards
Thanks everyone for the technical advice. I apologize if anyone thinks I was out of line with my recommendations and criticism. That was never my intention.
I should point out that I have not once criticized the product itself (only the instructions). I have used HiTek bullets for many years (MBC’s). I was hoping to coat my own bullets as I am tired of the powder coating process which I have been using for years. Just sick of placing bullets upright only to watch them all fall over as I place in oven... sigh.
I will try HiTek powder again when I have time.
No worries..
Warm them up prior to baking and I feel you will be good to go.
I have only ever used the 20gms to 100mls Acetone mix.
I have baked millions with no problem with this mix.
And I only do 2 coats for rifle and pistol bullets..
I note, you did not mention, that you have orders in place for delivery this week.
It seems, you may have found time to coat with Hi-Tek.
I hope that your order arrives to you promptly. Our US agent will try and make contact with you to determine what further assistance you require.
Ordered a different color based on recommendations earlier in this thread about it being able to be pushed faster and I hoped to use for magnum and rifle rounds. Ironically, I purchased it right after I thought the smash test passed on the first coat with black.
I actually debated cancelling but couldn’t call them to cancel. Since you are obviously in contact with them, please cancel it. Thx.
We are in very close communications with the US and other agents.
Any matters that is requiring confirmation/checking, is shared and exchanged. This allows us to check on credibility or bona fide intentions.
I did not order any product from US agent, I have no legal ability to cancel an order placed by someone else. Unfortunately you will have to cancel your order your self.
You will have to communicate with US agent during business hours.
I’m fairly new to this forum and have received excellent advice from friendly members. All the threads I have read seem to follow in the same friendly vein, except this one. Surely this forum is not the place “to wash your dirty linen in public” ?
I’m having some issues with applying Hi Tek, but the issues are with me, my fault for not reading the directions supplied with the product carefully enough. Hi Tek is clearly a excellent material for coating boolits and fun to apply and use as is casting my own boolits.
I’m following the advice to measure the temperature of the boolits with a thermometer that has a probe and can be read whilst the boolits are “baking” I found a oven thermometer that fits the bill that I already had. My coating improved instantly I started using it. Now to resize and load a few to test!
Thanks Hi Tek
Bazza
Bazz.
The main issues seems to be that people "think" they can cut corners and get good results.
You can't! Even after 6 or so years of using HITEK, I still firmly stick with the coating mix ratios and baking procedure.
You find the people having issues and whinging about the coating not working, are not listening to the advise being offered.
I run a commercial Bullet making business here is OZ. I only give input here to try and assist fellow casters to coat their bullets.
If they choose to ignore the advice, So be it.
I can confirm this finding as well. I sometimes end up with conditions that aren’t ideal and I’ve also cut corners to make measuring easier and I’ve found that sticking closely to instructions is the only way to get best results.
I love this product. I’m in awe of how well it works every time I see it. It’s really unbelievable stuff.
Does anyone know if it exists in some other industry used on small parts maybe?
DrewP
Thanks for compliment.
There is an old saying, "if all else fails, read instructions".....
In fact, now that you mention it, I developed the coating initially for mines. I designed a product, that sealed metal, lubricate and to protect from corrosion, but the coating must remain electrically conductive to prevent electrostatic build up. I used to coat parts and bake them. I realised, that because of the tough property it would also work with ammunition. I had to re-formulate to make sure that coating bonded well to Lead and alloys, without etch primers etc etc. That is when my attention was also heightened, as a well known cast ammo manufacturer here, must have had simultaneously an ESP moment, as they contacted me for a coating for their cast. That was 27-28 years ago. The rest is history.
Now I have been very busy with developing a conductivity improver for oils. I don't believe there is product out there that actually is soluble and compatible with oils, and provides stable conductivity reduction. Many industrial applications have major problems with huge high voltage static discharges that destroys equipment.
I have developed and had tested an additive, that seems to work, and is compatible with oils used in these problematic areas. It is also designed to get rid of bugs in water ullage interface. (I am thinking that it also may be useful to stop bug growth in stored Diesel where moisture can condense at bottom, and grow bugs that block pumps and filters. Now, marketing is next step.
I think Fuel Doctor beat you to it. I love the stuff. Use it for the ute, Ride-on and push mower, Amazing stuff..
I am aware of several such products on the market. I do not know composition of Fuel doctors stuff, but I am aware that a lot use materials like Quaternium compounds as anti bacterial. They work very well as bug killers. Some also have detergent type fuel stabilisers and anti-Oxidants to stop fuel going off..
Many contain "chlorides" and with time, these Chlorides cause major corrosion problems.
Fortunately, my brew has no "Chlorides" and is non corrosive, anti-static and bug killer.
Sooooo.….unique......
Ah interesting! I had a feeling it may have spawned from somewhere else, as most things do. What your other application doesn’t explain is what I find most fascinating about this application which is that coated bullets don’t stick together during curing. Somehow you’ve made a coating that bonds to metal it’s applied to but not to itself in other neighboring parts. THAT is the amazing trick. At least to my non chemist brain!
this is how I pre-warm my bullets now... But you can place them on top of the smaller ovens to warm up..
https://i.imgur.com/IvIa8wB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/QsAeVEr.jpg
You make some nice bullets there Ausglock, My trays are made of the same type material but Mine are not stainless steel. Regards Stephen
When a tray of bullets is 120 deg F to 140 deg F they are almost too hot to hold your hand on them, 10 to 15 min at these temps dry's the coating for baking.