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but he is only shoointg/loading one caliber...so there is no changeout cost...the sdb comes set up he adjust for his powder and his boolit and goes to town.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
he never said anything about the future adding or loading any more....
based on his data...a square deal b in 45 colt is the answer.
I have a couple dedicated Pro1000s and have learned to live with them. However for other calibers I use the Lee classic cast turret and it works trouble free but not as fast as an expensive progressive. Make sure you get the classic "cast" turret version and also get the small and large safety primer feeders.Quote:
Originally Posted by thehouseproduct
For not much money, you can move the pro auto powder measure with the spring & lever arm parts and the auto disk riser (search "Lee powder" on MidwayUSA). Perhaps add a rifle charging die, double powder disk kit and extra turrets and you are all set.
Sell the Lee Pro1000 press and wait until you win the lottery and buy a progressive with all the bells and whistles. - Phil
Well Mike in Co,
Back in the 60s I only intended to load for 2 calibers, the 243 and the 300Savage.
However, since then I have loaded for at least 20 different rounds.
I have no CURRENT need or intention to load rifle rounds on a progressive, but have loaded a number of handgun cartridges over the years, all of which are loadable on the LNL or a Dillon 550 or 650 for that matter.
So, no matter how many times I looked at the SDB, as I said before, it just doesn't pencil out, cost wise.
Much, MUCH to expensive to switch calibers when you consider the fact the dies are not usable on other standard loading presses, even Dillon's own products
And that, inspite of the fact I started loading for only ONE handgun, the 38/357, but now load or have loaded for a total of 7 different handgun rounds.
Just an Ol'Coot's opinion.
Keep em coming!
Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
while quite true that a disk cavity will only hold so much quite often the problem is the drop tube , if not free from grease or oil it will also hang in there and either bridged or clumped it lets go when it wants or gets too heavy to hang in there , a super clean and flitzed drop tube has never presented me that problem and many folks who swear by dillons presses use a lee powder measure , IIRC lee and dillon exchanged patent rights on powder measures and priming partsQuote:
Originally Posted by angus6
as for the rest of the chevy dodge ford debate 99% of failures with these presses are operator failures - even if the operator can not admit it and by thinking it wont happen to u is setting urself up for it to happen they are also all in a separate class and it isnt really comparing chevy/ford/etc but more like apples and oranges or ford/chevy vs. rolls royce vs. yugo .... one has to think that if he can make something work that another cant then that's the problem ( or the solution)
I've heard people say, "I got rid of the Lee and got a Dillon (or Hornady)".
I've heard people say "I've got a Lee, until I can step up to a Dillon (or Hornady)".
I've never heard anyone say "I can't wait for my new Lee to arrive so I can get rid of this Dillon (or Hornady)".
Now I have heard people say that they do get their Lee working IF they a) fiddle with it a lot, or b) dedicate it to a single caliber so as to avoid changing it once it gets working.
Go with the Dillon (or Hornady) you won't be sorry. Hornady is a very good value when you consider the free projectile offer.
I am thinking of picking up a Hornady Lock and Load. I have a Dillon 650 and my brother wants to take it with him when he moves up north next week. I thought the free offer was over but 500 bullets is nothing to sneeze at.Quote:
Originally Posted by dudel
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIQUEDOT
That wasn't my post that you quoted, but it could have been. I've said the exact same thing on several occasions.
BUT....#1} I bought a Pro 1000 new and two others were given to me by frustrated owners. One just needed a new ratchet, the other was pretty much mangled and need extensive work to repair. I bought a new Load Master and another at a greatly reduced price from a frustrated owner.
#2) That's almost word for word what Richard Lee said to me when I was trying to resolve some issues with the first Load Master. Rather than admit that his design wasn't absolutely perfect, he chose to insult me. It kind of teed me off at the time and I find it has pretty much the same effect now.
When you say the Load Master is almost trouble free, I can agree with that with some reservations...It can be ALMOST trouble free if you know how to do it. With the right dies, proper adjustment, preventive maintenance, proper selection of primers and diligent inspection of brass, I was able to maintain about 96+% good reloads with the LM. By decapping in a separate operation and cleaning/uniforming primer pockets I could improve that percentage somewhat. Using mixed head stamp brass with no other change would drop the percentage to 87% or so. (most of the rejects related to primers)
Mine would run fine with Win primers, but Fed (too soft) or CCI (too hard) would cause some hang ups and would damage the chintzy little plastic primer shuttle, so I had to keep a good supply of those on hand. CCI primers and brass with LC, WCC, S&B and some others would result in lots of high primers that had to be inspected and seated later with a hand priming tool. (I did many thousands of them without a problem but it always made me nervous )
Dillon sizing dies with their huge radius on the bottom worked well, but Lee sizing dies (go figger), which I prefer because they size much closer to the base of the case, would cause an occasional hang up when the case wouldn't exactly line up with the die and any glitch in the stroke would cause a primer jam.
The final straw was when I called(toll call, why don't they have an 800 no?) and Richard Lee answered the phone...
I was impressed!! Here's the guy who designed the press, he has all the answers....NOT!! He suggested I was intellectually challenged and wasn't mentally capable of operating such a fine machine. There isn't any problem with that cheap little stamped sheet metal lever that seats primers and any problem I had with it was obviously due to my own lack of mechanical aptitude and if I were capable of understanding the simplicity of his design I could turn out quality ammo by the truck load. He then suggested that I may be more satisfied with Dillon equipment. (Yes he actually said that)
So, I took him up on his offer....I sold all the Lee progressive presses and bought.....Hornady.
I really considered Dillon,(I eventually bought a SDB from a friend and am happy with it) because everyone raved about their "no BS warranty". But then I noticed that every Dillon owner I talked to....EVERY ONE...when they praised the warranty it was some variation of, "I broke the ***** on my 550 and they had the part on the way the next day...FREE!" Well, that's fine, but the message I got was that every press that Dillon sold....BROKE.
I now have two Hornady LNL presses. One I bought new five years ago. I load about 20,000 45ACP per year on it. I bought the other slightly used.(I had to adjust the index pins on it) I swap it between 223 and 38 Super and load ~10,000 per year on it.
The Hornady presses have not been completely trouble free. There is a learning curve. There is some PM required (nothing compared to Lee's ****). And I honestly can't tell you anything at all about their warranty....NOTHING HAS BROKEN!!!!!
Jerry
right...BUT THIS IS NOT YOUR THREAD...THE GUY THAT ASKED JUST SAID one round...PERIOD.
EVERYONE STARTS WIHT ONE.....CAUSE YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE
but again based on his request..a square deal b fits the bill....
mike in coQuote:
Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
Well in my opinion the lees are far from ALMOST TROUBLE FREE. Ive owned pro1000s and one loadmaster and if anything the loadmaster was more of a headache then the pro1000. I know some guys get by with them but thats just what there doing, getting by. When i load i want to load not fiddle with a press. I do know that one of the lees will make ammo and make good ammo if all the stars are aligned and i also know that not everyone that is a handloader is into it enough to justify the expense of a dillon or hornady but if you factor in that something like a 550 is a one time expense and something that will last you a lifetime its actually a bargin. I see alot of guys post that they just cant afford one or that they cant see spending that kind of money on a press but id bet if you checked they probably bought 3 new guns that year. Give up one of those guns and buy yourself a good press. theres also the type of guy that will never admit what they bought is inferior because there just to smart to buy junk. Like the lee guys that want to claim that those presses are every bit as good as a dillon or hornady. Im just the oposite. If i buy something that is a pain in the but im the first guy thats going to tell the world that i wasted my money. I get alot of no handloaders and casters that stop buy to get some advice and to try out equiptment. the first thing i tell them is that theres three things i wouldnt be without. A 550 dillon a star sizer and a good quality casting pot like a rcbs or lyman. they sometimes roll there eyes in there head and say i just cant afford that. But again i bring up the fact that for the price of a good bolt rifle and a quality scope you can buy all three of them. Some dont listen and figure there more intelegent then me buy saving themselves 500 bucks by going with the lee stuff and down the road after using there lee precision;) stuff stop back buy and watch me load and decide they need better. they would have saved money in the long run by bucking up and buying the right stuff from the git go. Ill make anyone here with a lee progressive a deal. You come over and bring your lee press and we will mount it up on one of my benches and i will run my 550 and both of us will load a 2000 rounds of any handgun ammo of your choise. If you finish before me ill give you the 550.
like i said..i think lloyd is the only one to own both..now i know better...all,,,,,,,,
read and learn
thanks lloyd
mike in co
I have 2 Dillon 550B presses one set for Large Primers the other for Small Primers.Quote:
Originally Posted by EDK
I also have 2 STAR Lubricator/sizers one for .357 the other for .429 and a Lyman for .459 it is sure nice not to have to reset all the dies & primer feeders.
Swede
for the guy that is just going to reload one or even two handgun calibers a square deal is a hell of a press. I dont know how many rounds ive cranked out in my lifetime on square deals but it has to be in the hundreds of thousand. We there short throw there very fast. I can load on one as fast when i get my bullets and cases close and get in a rhythm as fast as a 650 with a case feeder. I hear all the time that there a pain to swap calibers and thats just bunk. I can swap one out in less then 5 minutes. Only differnce between swapping calibers on one of them compared to a 550 is you have to unscrew 3 screws holding the die plate compared to poping the two pins on a 550. I always wondered why dillon didnt make a case feeder for a square deal but id bet its because if they did it would be faster then a 650 or a 1050 and the sales of those presses would probably suffer. If they came out with one that was set up from the git go for a case feeder like the 650 id buy a couple again in a heartbeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike in co
Nah. Stroke, which means part of your brain dies. Lukily affected the left side as I am right handed. Makes typing a bear tho.:coffee:Quote:
Originally Posted by NWFLYJ
I'm not sure why you would think someone would try to put two bullets in a case. If you fail to rotate, you would only go to the bullet station once, after adding a second powder charge. As badly as I hate to admit it, I have double charged a case on a 550. I was pulling a lot of cases out to verify powder charges because I was using a marginally low powder charge for .45 ACP steel plate loads. They were so light that even with an 8 pound recoil spring a tenth short would not cycle correctly. Fortunately, the double of a very light load got my attention but did no damage to the 1911 or my body. It did damage my psyche, though. The paranoia level definitely went up a little, making me pay far greater attention. I had owned the 550 about 15 years when it happened, so it was not new to me. I have also managed to not charge a case in the 550. It's easy to do any time you do anything to interrupt the smooth flow of repetition. The Square Deal and 650 make it much more difficult to introduce this HUMAN ERROR. It is not the fault of the machine.Quote:
Originally Posted by NWFLYJ
I noticed a buddy always left the handle down/ ram in the up position on his progressive press. I didn't have to ask why. The handle up/ ram down can be ambiguous but it it's left in the downstroke position you KNOW that you have a bullet seated and powder in the case at the charging station. I adpoted his practice and really like it.
The 650 is more expensive to buy, uses more expensive caliber conversions and has IMO a far superior primer handling system. It is far faster than the 550 or SDB for me but then I load a lot at a time so it's worth the extra expense. All of my 650 loading is handgun cartridges, mostly .40 and .45 ACP. I agree that the 550 is very friendly when changing calibers and primer sizes. The SDB is OK but I don't use it much. I do all of my progressive rifle loading on the 550. That's mostly .223 and some .30-'06 and I still prep the cases on a single stage press. I just prime, charge the case and seat the bullet on the progressive.
David
I for one will never claim that Lee progressives are in the same class as Dillon or even Hornady. That's like saying your Festiva is as good as a Civic. Or a Yugo is as good as a Ferrari.
What I will say, though, is that the Pro-1000 is a good press. Not a great press, but a good press. I now own four, two more thanks to this thread and my offer to buy your "Lee Junk". Yes, you have to tinker with them a bit, drill holes in the primer cover for a toothpick "gate", adjust the index, adjust the casefeeder to the correct height, adjust the dies, and install the handle. Learning curve, yes. Problem child, no. Once mine are set up, which takes about 30 minutes from out of the box to running, I have to do very little to keep them going, mostly an occasional ram oiling and blow the powder out of the primer chute and out from under the shellplate.
My only complaint about the Lee are that the shellplate rocks a bit and the last two rounds in a session (if you run the case feeder dry) will have about .010" longer COAL because the seater station isn't countered by the sizing station.
If you run a bright light over by the boolit seating station you can visually verify powder charge and level in each case before buttoning it up, which has prevented me from having squib loads. Double charges are impossible unless you lift the ram halfway, back the shellplate up one station by hand, intercept the case just dropped from the feeder, and run the ram full up again. In other words, ya gots to be really careless to foul it up.
If you make sure that the primer chute has at least 15 primers in it and that powder sifting out of the measure above doesn't get in there you won't have primer feed issues. About the only thing that hangs up a reloading session is if a primer breaks off leaving a ring stuck in the pocket. But that will hang up ANY progressive.
I'm happy with what I have, and for accuracy loading, I stick with a Classic Cast Turret or my trusty RCBS Ammomaster.
Gear
I have to say that I agree with Lloyd just about all the time when he posts on something I'm knowledgable about. I have reloaded well into 6 figures in 5 different pistol calibers on my square deal. But I will disagree here in that I think that someone buying his first should buy a 550 just because it more versatile for the future. I know I am going to buy one in the future because soon (I hope soon) my wife and I will be moving out of the little town we live in and move back out into the country and I will be shooting rifles again and the use of a progressive will be needed. I will also buy another square deal, they are that good and the dies I have found to be superb, my sizing dies size all brass down so that the neck tension appears to shrink wrap the slugs. My use of the lifetime guarantee has been minimal and only once because the press failed, once because a set of dies were under neath a leaky pipe and they replaced them no charge to me and I told them what caused it but they didn't care. I don't know what kind of company Hornaday is and will probably never find out because I will always do my buisiness with Dillon.
You want my honest opinion on this? Well here it is! I am almost (notice i said almost) positive i would be leaving with your 550. Heck i can load 100 rounds in just the time it takes you to fill your primer tube. I don't have a single issue with loading 2000 rounds on a load master, so let's see it takes ten seconds to fill all four case feeder tubes, and 30 seconds to fill the primer tray... yes i could use a 550!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Smale
By the way i am not a dillon basher. When people ask me who makes the best progressives, i always tell them that everyone that uses them usually agree that it's dillon. If i could have overcame the cost of caliber change overs on the dillons that is what i would be using! But to say the Lee machines don't work is just wrong. I don't have any problems with them and they are extremely simple presses!
The lee presses are so simple that a fellow can trouble shoot and fix any thing that goes wrong in a matter of five minutes or less. After twenty thousand rounds you might need to replace a ninety cent part. I can live with those numbers.
Although I'm firmly in the Dillon camp in this discussion, it has nothing to do with any experiance with Lee products. I have only used Dillon and they have been so exlemplary with me that I am not curious about anything else.
all i can say is bring it up here ;) Ive got one pro 1000 at the bottom of my pond and its probably lonely. As to primer tube filling i have a frankfort arsonal primer tube filler that fills a tube in less then 30 seconds. I also have the option of filling 20 or more tubes and having them ready to go. I have well over a 100 tubes and keep them filled in the primers i use the most. If you can HONESTLY say you are a 100 percent certain your loadmaster will load 2000 rounds without a stopage of any kind and without even one round with an upside down primer every time you have a one in a million loadmaster and id be honered to allow you to walk off with my 550. Thats one of the reason i still use 550s. Sure there a bit slow but even loading on 650s and lnls a guy has an occasional stopage. When i fire up the 550 i KNOW that there will be not a minute of frustration. You say yours goes 2000 rounds without any trouble? I must have gotten bad one because the one i had rarely did a 100 without some kind of a stopage. Mostly primer related and granted minor but still enough of an irritation that it took the fun out of loading. to be honest i had better luck with the pro1000 thats at the bottom of the pond then i did with the loadmaster. My buddy still laughs at the day he was over when i pulled my second pro1000 off the bench. It was the day my first 550 showed up. he knew i hated that press and offered to buy it from me for 50 bucks. I told him he was to good of a friend to do that to and that the frustrtaion of loading on that press could possibly cause him to beat up his wife and i couldnt be resposible for that so we marched out to the pond and burried it at sea! The first pro1000 and my loadmaster went to some poor soul on here and every weekend at church i pray to God for forgiveness for doing that to him;) I know i come off as a lee basher on here but im really not. I think they make some great products i wouldnt be without. I love there dies and use them more then about any other brand and there primer tool is something i couldnt be without. I also like the little zip trims. there sure convenient when you only have a box or two of brass to trim. I think there turnent press is a good bang for the buck and the big single stage press they recently introduced is a decent press and a bargin for what they cost. But there progressive presses, there cheaper single stage press, there powder measures and scales wont ever sit in my loading room again. Sure they work and for someone that considers this just a casual hobby they will probably get you by. but then if a guy is buying a handgun for self defense a high point will probably get you by but my guns and my loading gear are the center of my life and i have no use for second rate ****. By the way if you do come up and take me up on this bet feel free to take your loadmaster home with you even if you loose because i sure dont want it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIQUEDOT
Umm...folks, if you're having problems with your Pro 1000's, it's easy to deal with. I've got a video series showing how to deal with all that stuff that you're talking about, ESPECIALLY the primer feed mechanism issue. The video series lives here.
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/pro1000.html
I can regularly hit close to 400/hour, sustained rate for several hours, with my .38 Special Pro 1000, on which I also load .357 Magnum. This press has well over 15,000 rounds on its clock and is still running like a top. My .45 Colt Pro 1000, I can hit over 300/hour easily, again, sustained for several hours. That press has over 5,000 rounds under its belt. And all my ammo fires great.
And I will add my voice to those saying, "if you don't want your Pro 1000, let's make a deal." I wouldn't mind another one at a good price. PM me if you're interested.
- T