Should the 45-45-20 work or I should just lube with 2500+ for better results ?
I could pan lube and use a cookie cutter if 45-45-10 doesnt work.
or maybe tumble lube + pan lube after for double lube?
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Should the 45-45-20 work or I should just lube with 2500+ for better results ?
I could pan lube and use a cookie cutter if 45-45-10 doesnt work.
or maybe tumble lube + pan lube after for double lube?
Try with the 45-45-10 1st and then try the 2500+. Maybe try 2 coats of the 45-45-10?
I'll load 20 of each and see, I'll try to report next week when possible.
Don't forget to let the boolits age harden before reloading and shooting. A person can speed age things with the use of the oven. After quenched and I let the boolits sit for an hour our so then back into the oven 190-200 degrees for 2 hours. They will reach nearly their peak hardness in 12-24 hours depending on how hot the very 1st oven temp was when you quenched.
Yes they are hardening now. Peak hardness is reached in 48 hours or so with heat treat and quench.
Will load and test next week.
I have 20 that are lubed with 2500+ and 150 or so with 45-45-10.
Will try 20 of each, if the 45-45-10 lead, I'll just add a 2500+ pan lube.
Just curious, have you verified that with a hardness tester? I've seen it take longer if the antimony content is low. Just my experience.
Here's a couple of observations I have made while chasing a similar issue in a polygonal rifled HK. I've not completely solved it yet but I can shoot 2-300 rounds with no major loss in accuracy.
1. The Lee TL-356-120-TC seems to be the most problematic mold for 9mm. There are a ton of posts about it. I don't have one and that is why. It's pretty reviled.
2. The exact opposite is true of the 356-120 TC. I have two of these molds.
3. The only time I got zero leading in my HK was with the 356-120 TC, from straight COWW that test at approx. 14BHN on a Cabine Tree tester(a little hard for COWW, but it is such an inconsistent source anyway). They were pan lubed with 50-50 Lithi-Bee and sized to .357 on a Lee push through sizer.
4. Using just Range Scrap- which I get for free, I get one groove with leading about 0.5mm wide approx. 2/3 the length of the barrel, pretty much in the middle and the next one about 1/3 that much. If you took a six cavity mold and poured one long continuous sprue, then shrunk that down to it was about 0.5mm at its widest point, that what it looks like. Looks like someone dribbled lead in that groove. This is what I get with Lithi-Bee in various ratios, Ben's Red, Ben's Red with BLL on top, and HT/Q woth all the above. I always get some after about 2-300 rounds. Not enough to affect accuracy. Best so far is HT/Q, with Ben's Red and two coats of BLL.
5. While trying to sort it out, I tried sizing to .358. That made it worse.
6. A 358-125 RF, sized and lubed the same, with the same alloy produces tremendous accuracy.....for about 10 shots. Then it leads horribly. I say this as you may want to try a different bullet. If you are having trouble with a known "problem child" mold, and then the 105 mold, I wonder if you are not having enough contact with the driving bands.
7. One thing I did that reduced the amount of leading I was getting across the board was to take a cleaning patch, coat it with Flitz, and wrap it around a bore brush. I passed this back and forth through the barrel about 20 times and it really shined it up. Guys will talk about "fire lapping" or other methods. This was a small step in that direction. It really seemed to help.
8. And this was really key for me. Make dang sure your bore is clean. I mean REALLY clean. I can clean mine so it feels silky smooth when I run a patch through it. I can take it outside and hold it in the sun. I can put a patch on one end to help see....but until I put this in the chamber, I can't verify the lead is gone. If there's any from before, it will just start it again and you are chasing the wrong variable.
So, for me, a soft lube with a hard alloy worked. HT/Q Range Scrap with various lube- especially with two coats of BLL is "close enough". Certain molds are more well liked by my gun than others.
Because I could not get any more of that exact COWW alloy and am cheap, I have been frustrating myself trying to make things that "almost" work, work. Part of that is because I wanted just one alloy for 9mm and 38 SPL- which is a lot less finicky. I recently bought some Superhard and tin and will be making my own alloy for 9mm. Right now I have an alloy of 95/3/2 which the lead alloy calculator puts around 12BHN. I think it will test higher than that.
Good luck.
FYI, I get the same amount of leading, in the same grooves using store bought Hi-Tek bullets or home PC bullets with HF Red and range scrap. The store bought was really a mystery. I think I have two grooves that just need a bit more conditioning.
Good luck.
Keep us informed. My 9's are conventional rifling and have no problems. I use Lee 356-120 TC and Carnauba Red, best bullet I have found for 9's. My XDM can go 1000 rounds without hurting accuracy.
Many people who use .358" boolits and have worse leading than with .357" could very well be because the larger boolit scrapes off at the start of the sharp and/or abrupt throat more so than the .357. Add to this with a boolit that has a more rounded ogive, Lee 358-125-RF, vs another design that doesn't, Lee 356-120-TC, and you are adding fuel to the fire. Lead scrapes and then is transposed to the bore and the next boolit will iron it on and so on and so forth. I have worked on the throats of a few barrels that had less than friendly barrels and when finished the similar leading that many newer semi auto's have simply does not exist any longer. There is a very good post somewhere talking about this on the forum I just can't remember where it is right off hand.
I have a conventional rifled 9mm that I can not get to stop leading entirely.
I tried everything you have listed as well as a cupboard full of powders 10-20+BHN and it all failed.
A GC mould made a big improvement 200+ rounds and still acceptable accuracy where previously I would see tumbling after as little as 30 rds.
Slugs at .3555 but after reading everything I could find on 9mm and cast ran across a few people that have similar issues and their cause is the same as mine. While slugging will show .3555 the barrel actually has a tight spot about 1" in front of the chamber rest of the barrel is actually closer to .3565. Push a cast boolit of any size down the barrel from the chamber though the tight spot and hold it up to light and you can see light around it.
Doesn't matter what I do with the barrel any boolit and lube combo is going to struggle being swaged down and then trying to bump back up, gas cutting is going to be a given.
I have just decided to live with it GC has made it usable for 200rds and Ive found a PB load that will hold accuracy for more than 70rds. A new barrel would solve the issue and probably cheaper than everything else I tried to get it to shoot lead but I didn't want to let it beat me. lol
Good point, 220. I seem to remember a thread on a Walther that had a similar issue? Not sure, but if I recall the story was the guy contacted the manufacturer and was told it was "in spec" because it was designed for jacketed.
If that is what the OP has going on, a new barrel is surely the only fix.
I'm looking for a mold and sizer to try 9mm casting on a Glock. What are the recommended molds for someone new that wants to be successful at getting 9mm to work?
I was thinking the Lee 356-125-2R round nose which looks like a typical 9mm projectile.
Bit it seems like the molds discussed here that work for 38 special and 357 that throw a larger diameter round is better??
Is the "lee 125gn 358 mold" you mentioned the Lee 358-125-RF #90574?
What are you using to size to 357 and what does this mold normally throw in diameter?
Thanks
Here is the thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...1911-Throating Even though it is for a 45 auto 1911 same applies to all semi autos that have this particular issue.
Glocks usually have decent throats in their factory barrels, but I completely agree that a bad throat can lead to a lot of issues.
Throat seems decent
You have something mechanical going on.
I pc my 9mm bullets and size them to .356. Using nothing more than scrap lead/hill picking's/berm lead that I make in #100 batches and it usually is around 8bhn to 9bhn. The pc'ing process anneals that alloy making it softer than what it starts out at.
I use the .356 bullets in 3 different 9mm's. A springfield ro that slugs out @ .356, a taurus pt111 that slugs out @ .358 and a contender bbl in 9mm that slugs out @ .355.
I've shot bullets like these 110gr wc's harvey swc's in all of the 9's with loads from anything from mild to wild and had no leading in any of the 9mm's sizing those pc'd bullets to .356.
[IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...psxewqmkwp.jpg[/IMG]
Shot countless 1000's of the mihec 125gr hp's in the 9mm's sized to .356 with a full house load of power pistol. The taurus pt111 with the bbl that's slugged out at .358 eats these .356 bullets like candy with no leading. But I only shoot 200 to 300 rounds in a range session with it.
[IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...psnlqcm8kg.jpg[/IMG]
Playing around with the contender bbl and 150gr hb bullets with mouse fart loads @ the 50yd line. The contender slugs out @.355 and shoots anything from these lite target loads to p+ 110gr pc'd bullets getting sreaming (1500fps+) velocities out of that 10" bbl.
[IMG]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps9110adbe.jpg[/IMG]
I undersize my 9mm's by any cast bullet standards for 2 out of 3 of my 9mm bbl's. The soft pc'd bullet will easily expand to fill and seal those bbl's @ velocities ranging from 600fps to 1600fps. Heck that pt111 bbl shoots full house loads of power pistol (1050fps from the 3.2" bbl pictured above) with bullet .002 undersized for that bbl and it gets no leading and the bullets don't tumble.
The only thing all 3 of the 9mm bbl's I use have in common is that they all have excellent throats in them.
The contender has huge revolver depth riflings (.004) and is .355.
The springfield ro has shallow semi-auto riflings (.002) and is .356.
The taurus pt111 has shallow semi-auto riflings (.002) and is .358.
I've shot coated bullets in at least 12 different firarms that I can think of off of the top of my head. With loads that ranged from 8,000psi to 50,000+psi with bullet speeds anywhere from 600fps to 2300fps and never had any leading in any of those firearms.
There's got to be something in that bbl scraping off the coating on those coated bullets to lead your bbl. I'm running 34,00psi loads with a .002" undersized bullet in 1 of my 9mm's and get no leading from the coated bullets I'm using. I've sized coated bullets to .308 and shot them in a 308 with loads in the 25,000psi/2000fps range and got zero leading.
You've tried several different bullets, alloys, lubes, hardening of those alloys and the only thing they all have in common is what I call mechanical.
The bbl
The reloading die
You've already checked for bullets being scraped or re-sized from the reloading dies.
That leaves the bbl.
that's a way to see it. will report asap after next try
Might want to try to take some decent pictures of the throat. I found a flashlight pointed at some patches to illuminate them and then hold the barrel over that works well. Kind of a filtered, indirect light. I bet if you posted some pics into this thread someone would be able to take it from "seems decent" to "Yep, that's good" or "Nope, that needs work."
Might save you a frustrated range trip.
Have a couple friends with Glocks and they have a real time with cast in them! G's are made fro and love FMJ's. The instructions say shooting cast lead voids the warranty. But they all say that!
As said earlier....the rifling they use????? New barrel maybe?????
All my 9's (NO Glocks! Ever.) like 358 sizing and FCD's. I shoot 9-12 Bhn + PC with ZERO leading.
You have been fighting this for quite some time! Hope you finally figure it out. Or trade for a non-Glock gun maybe??
Good luck in 2016.
bangerjim