Attachment 149791 ....since talking about shooting people is a very serious subject I thought I might throw this into the mix. The photo (to prove they exist) is of the W-W 110 gr. JHP +P+ round which was widely used in the '70s and early '80s. It was very effective, as witnessed by Marshall and Sanow's book "Street Stoppers", page 166, updated street results, shows a total number of shootings using this round as being 31 with 25 one shot stops for a percentage of 81... , anyway, the agency I worked for required us to carry this ammo. I carried it in a S&W Mod. 66 4". We could carry a .357 Mag., but it had to be loaded with this ammo. It is hot, and after firing a 60 rd. qualification course your hand couldn't tell that you hadn't been firing magnums. During my time on the dept. there were 13 shootings with this round and everyone died. When I left, several boxes of this went with me, and I have the utmost confidence in it. I wouldn't carry it in a "J" frame. In some circles this is called the "Treasury Dept...38 Special Controlled Expansion Ammunition...." and this round faded from view as did duty revolvers...I really like and respect the W-W 110 gr. .38 load... But, like I said before, regardless of all the stats and figures I'd take my 1911 (big and slow) as first choice, and have no argument with that theory either. Char-Gar's loads look most impressive.