Real Accuracy (2 moa or less) with Coated Rifle Bullets at 1800 fps or greater.

I did make it to the range today and had some sucesses, but for some reason my Chrony would not read the 22 cal boolits. Maybe they were faster than the speed of light?? LOL. I did shoot some of my sighters with the Bator boolits and the accuracy at 100 yards was pretty good at an estimated speed of 2,400 fps. Did not measure any of the groups yet and it might be a couple days before this gets done.
I did change primers in my RBH Hunter in 41 mag. from Win to Federal 155 magnum. This made a big change in how the Alliaant 300 MP burned. With the 220gr Saeco TC GC and 23.5grs of 300MP the velocity was over 1,550 fps with excellent accuracy. There is no load data for the 41 and this powder as Alliant said it was not worth it for them to do this. Also used in my Mosin Nagant with the 314299 and had several moa groups.

Leadman:

I have had problems with .224's (both Cast and jacketed) not registering in my choronograph in the past. Had to "Paint Them" with a black felt tip to get reliable readings.

The Celt had a pretty good looking Target, but since it was shot at 50 Yards it becomes problematic when considering the longer range performance. I used "On Target Precision Calculator" to get an MOA on the target. My calcs are it was a 2.801 MOA group for the Target on the left. (See Below).

Attachment 93840

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MUSTANG

The Celt had a pretty good looking Target, but since it was shot at 50 Yards it becomes problematic when considering the longer range performance. I used "On Target Precision Calculator" to get an MOA on the target. My calcs are it was a 2.801 MOA group for the Target on the left. (See Below).

Attachment 93840

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WOW!!!! That is pretty cool Mustang!!!! Is that freeware/shareware?? Thanks for posting!!

TheCelt:

1. There is a 1.0 Version that is free, and a 2.0 version they sell. Go to: http://www.ontargetshooting.com/ to download. You can download a 15 day free trial on 2.0 Version.

2. It is critical that you "Scale the Photo" each time you use a new picture with this software. You do that by using the icon that looks like: X----X . You mark two points of known distance with the icon marker, then put the distance in inches between the two points. That scales the picture. Also, you have to set the distance and caliber in the table for every picture (Group).

In my military career, we used to do the same thing with aerial photos using objects of known size, and a ruler. Or, one can compare it to using a mil-dot reticle for estimating ranges. This is an automated tool of the same concepts.

Thanks Mustang, that is an interesting application! Thanks for sharing.

I had a request to post pictures of my Mosin-Nagant groups so even though they do not qualify for the 1,800 fps they do have info on the Alliant Power Pro 300 MP powder when used in a rifle with reduced load. This powder is slower than 296/110 or SR4759. Groups were shot at 100 yards with a 2X7 pistol scope.
I intended to shoot my Contender rifle in 223 Rem but as posted earlier the Chrony did not read the velocities. In the past there never was a problem but a shadow on the Chrony might have been the problem. Attachment 93949Attachment 93950

Leadman

What distance did you shoot these groups? I would presume 50 yards.
Thanks

Those were 100 yard groups. I edited the post to include the range. Knew I forgot something.

Excellent shooting with open sights, coated bullets and an old Mosin. Thanks for the info. I plan to try that load with dry tumbled coating and a scoped sniper mosin

I replaced the rear sight with a 2X7 pistol scope on the Mosin.

Popper you really should ditch the Lead Sled. They are hard on the rifle/scope and dont truely align the shooter to scope exactly the same way every time like a good shooting position. Your not shooting .458WINMAGs and getting your shooting form down is the first step to applying any accuracy you get out of your rifle/load.

I have to shoot off a Leadsled due to spine issues in my neck. There seems to be a point with each gun in which the accuracy will be affected by the Sled. A gun without a recoil pad seems to be affected at a lower velocity than the guns with pads. Power level comes into play also.
I can shoot full power loads out of my Savage 110 in 30-06 with pad with no problems, but my Encore ProHunter in 7mm Rem mag with pad won't get the best accuracy from full power, even with the muzzle brake.
My reduced cast loads seem to shoot as well on the sled as off.

I had anticipated posting some photos of my 223 Rem loads with the Bator boolits today but due to the ocular lense of the scope loosing up it is not to be.
I do have one target shot with my old 1903a3 Smith Corona sporter to post that qualifies for the 1,800 fps and 2 moa. This was my first test of this boolit and it does qualify but the heavier boolits like the 200 gr Lee shoot better in this gun.
The boolit was the Lee 30 cal. 150gr flat nose with gc, Hi-Tek Red Copper coating, sized .310".
23grs of IMR SR4759
WLR primer
velocity was 1,949 fps average for 5 shots
Group size 1.608" for 5 shots
Range was 100 yards.

Almost oofed and put this in the shot show thread, but figured that sucker had gotten far enough off topic. lol. So far, I do not shoot cast in rifle. Honestly do not shoot rifle very much at all, and do not label myself as a rifle shooter. But, will start tinkering with casting for rifle in the upcoming future. My big question: WHY is everyone having a difficult time coating rifle bullets and getting equivalent results to traditional cast? Is it an alloy issue, using too soft? Is the baking of coatings softening the alloy too much? I have read about heat hardening bullets in an oven. Wouldn't a coating that cures at the proper temperatures be able to be used and leave a heat hardened bullet as a result? Or are the coatings being used just too slippery, and giving erratic pressures and velocities? Possibly irregularities the coating thickness? To me, it seems that there HAS to be a simple answer. Then again, I may be totally off... Hard to fix something if you don't know what's broke.

The issue is of accuracy not leading so primarily the inconsistent thickness of the coating is the issue. I suppose the "slipperiness" of the coating might be an issue if it is causing inconsistent muzzle velocity but I haven't heard this yet from the rifle shooting crowd. I have heard a few reports about changes in mv from the pistol shooters but not enough to form a consistent story. It goes to show that we are still in the infancy of the powder coating methods.

Case in point: I pulled up a powder vender website yesterday to look at clear powders. There were something like ten different ones! Never mind the various colors or mixing of colors or the chemical types of powder coat. I believe the best performing powders have yet to be identified. Application methods will be developed for the rifle crowd. These are just a couple of the growing pains that will happen as the method matures. Go do your thing and come back in five years. The conversation then will be totally different.

I think that comparable accuracy to wax based lubes with one of the coating can be done consistently in the near future. I am close with my Contender with 23" bull barrel. My shooting session Thursday produced a velocity over 3,600 fps with accuracy just under 3". My jacketed load for this barrel is a 55gr SP at 3,100 fps but it a 1/2 moa load. A previous wax lubed boolit load was shot at just over 3,000 fps with 2" accuracy.
I am also going to load my Savage 30-06 with the same load of IMR4350 (when I can find some) and a 200 gr boolit. This shot into less than 1" with Carnuba Red at almost 2,600 fps. I hope it will work out as well with the Hi-Tek coating.

I have some test results to share. I am shooting a Remington 700 .308 AAC-SD with Nikon 3-9x50 optics. These are my first rifle bullets that I have cast to shoot at normal velocities. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/mazety2y.jpg

These were cast from a Lee 309-170gr mold. They average 174gr after PC and sizing thru a .311 push thru sizer. I used Cu gas checks. All groups were shot at 50yds

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/9yqa6uje.jpg
This group was loaded over 34gr IMR 4895. Average velocity at 1896fps. Not real impressive at 1.2".

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/ze4a3eju.jpg
These were loaded over 35gr IMR 4895. Average velocity at 1930fps. Again not real impressive at 1.26" group.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/u3ure8e4.jpg
This was my best group, but only has three shots. I had two primers that failed. I don't count his as valid, but a good starting point to continue testing. They were loaded over 36gr of IMR 4895. Average velocity 2030fps. Three shot group at 0.65" equivalent to 1.18MOA.

My plan is to do three more five shot groups starting with loads of 37gr going to 39gr. Once I find the best of these I will load 25 of the best charge and do five, five shot groups.

Any thoughts or suggestions.

Just as a side note, I shot three 165gr SGK HP to check zero on my scope to start. This is that group. This rifle is Capable of sub MOA accuracy. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/27/9yzamega.jpg

Dverna, I have shot many sub moa groups with Hi-Tek coated boolits. Most have been around 1,600 to 1,700 fps but some have been up to around 2,400 fps. Most were before this thread was posted and I do not save my targets. I just enter the info in my notebooks.

I have just recently gotten into casting and I'm putting together a 300blk upper for my AR. Spent the past few days looking for .30 bullets to load for my 300blk but they are expensive! or maybe I haven't ordered bullets in a while. In the past I had been against casting for rifle for fear of leading. But the wallet is starting to drive me to the idea even more. I've been trying to read up on this powder coating and it sounds really neat till I started reading this thread.

My question is can powder coating cast bullets provide a good cheap bullet for an AR for general plinking and say be able to put all the rounds in a say a hand size target at 100 yards?