RCBS Small Base Sizer. I lube, run through the die, turn 180, run it through again. Then I put it in a case gauge. Back to using in my M1A.
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RCBS Small Base Sizer. I lube, run through the die, turn 180, run it through again. Then I put it in a case gauge. Back to using in my M1A.
change to a spray on lanolin based sizing lube or imperial sizing wax. If using the lanolin, make sure it is dry before you use it or it will stick. With either lube, make sure that you lube the inside of the mouth. The primer punch should extend 1/8" below the die and this will situate the expander ball correctly. Make sure the die is clean.
I've never used a small based sizing die for cartridge cases fired in Military type Rifles.
M-1 Garand's
M1A Super Match, STD, SOCOM 16
AR-15's
Mini-14's
Never needed to.
Just because they're fired in a military style rifle doesn't mean that brass has to be small based sized.
Just the opposite, G. I. Chambers are more generously sized then commercial sporting rifle chambers.
So they DON'T NEED to be sized down so far.
The old SB dies were for commercial rifles that didn't have the camming power of a bolt action.
Rifles such as the Browning BAR, Remington 760 & 742 and their variations. The Savage 99 sometimes, and Winchester 88 & 100.
The NEW Small Based die sets designed for 5.56 & 7.62 are just another way to sell dies.
The Dillon carbide dies still have to be lubed, but they will resist the sizing of tens of thousands of cases much longer then steel dies.
Redding has had a carbide expander ball for their sizing dies for bottleneck cases for several years as an accessory & they offer it as a conversion for RCBS dies.
LYMAN is now offering it for their new dies too.
The NEW Bushing style neck sizer dies are offered in both steel and carbide/ titanium nitride or something similar, that is slick enough not to need lube.
But they only size the neck with the "carbide" bushing, not the body of the case.
Case sizing isn't ROCKET SCIENCE.
Just read and follow the directions that come with the die set.
I will agree that they all don't need it but chamber dimentions are all over the place on semi auto and especially military guns. Ive had Ars that would run anything and ive had them that needed a small base die. Had them that ran 223 length ammo and had them that wouldn't. My theory is I have a number of guns in 223 556 and 308 and 762. If I had to grab ammo fast to feed a gun with small base sized ammo I know it will run in any of them. Ive never seen a down side to it. My brass lasts just as long or darned near and accuracy is every bit as good sb sizing. Maybe I a bit persnickety about it but I trim all once fired brass to minimum spec (minimum 556 length for 223) before I load it. chamfer inside and outside and use a sm base x die so brass stretching is held to a minimum. I then check it for length every 3 or 4 firings. Using a small base x die gives me peace of mind and doesn't have any downsides that ive seen. This aint my first rodeo. Ive been loading for 50 years and have loaded 100s of thousands of 223 and 308 and if it had a down side I think by now it would have bit me right on the nose. Now you might have a point if your loading bench rest ammo but those guys don't use standard dies either. Ive got a number of sets of dies for both that just collect dust because I see no need to use them. Even bolt guns can be cut with tight chambers. I have a 6mm classic rem that will not run reloads that aren't small base sized. Now I don't buy small base sizing dies for everything. But wouldn't load without them for my 556 and 762 guns. Keep in mind too that I use once fired brass. Brass that's been shot in about every type of gun and chamber. Sorry but I cant afford to by brand new commercial brass for black guns. I can buy a small base x die for 20 bucks. About the cost of two boxes of commercial l brass. No brainer to me. If I had one ar and bought brand new brass I wouldn't see any need for them either. But there sure not made to con people into dies they don't need. Maybe all dies sets are made to con you into buying them. Heck a guy could get away with a lee loader and a hammer if he to. Me? ill crank them out on a progressive press and use my small base dies thankyou. I like to shoot my ARs ALOT with those rounds and I detest it when a gun doesn't go bang every time. Being from southern CA I don't imagine you worry about it much. Not in real ar15s and ar10s anyway. At least not legally.
"Now you might have a point if your loading bench rest ammo but those guys don't use standard dies either."
The small base die advice is unwarranted. If it works for you great, if you have a gun that needs them, use them. But small base is not necessary as a general matter. All my ARs run fine with regular sizing dies. As one might expect, accuracy begins and ends with the neck.
"Reloading and Die Selection
Reloading for the .308 is straight-forward. The cartridge is very forgiving and performs exceptionally well with a wide variety of powders and bullets. Different applications require different tools and techniques, however. Those shooting semi-auto "gas guns" such as the M1A and FN-FAL clones should full-length size after each firing. Palma shooters, who need to be at near-max pressures to be competitive, should use the strongest brass available and should pay special attention to seating depths. At high pressures, Palma shooters can also benefit from body-sizing or full-length sizing after each firing.
Full-length Sizing (Body and Neck): The problem with full-length sizing is that virtually all commercial dies reduce the neck diameter much more than necessary. This results in excessive neck tension and can make bullets difficult to seat smoothly. There are two good solutions to the problem, and neither is very expensive.
1. Purchase a Forster .308 full-length sizing die. Measure a loaded round with a bullet seated, and note the outside neck diameter. Then send your die to Forster and for $10 (plus shipping) Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you specify. For bolt guns, we suggest .002" under the neck diameter of a loaded round. For gas guns, go .003" under. Total cost is about $45.00, including the die.
2. Hornady can make you a custom full-length sizing die for about $75.00 plus shipping. Just send them a few fired cases and a reamer print (if you have it). They can create a die that gives you ideal neck tension, as well as just the right amount of sizing at the shoulder and web. Call Hornady and ask for Lonnie Hummel. Scott Parker recently had a die like this made and he reports: "Average runout for 65 rounds was .0004". All 65 rounds showed less than .001" runout."
Neck Sizing Only: If you are not working your brass too much with very hot loads, you can probably get by with neck-sizing only. Bushing dies are convenient and allow you to adjust tension as easily as swapping in a new bushing, but this can contribute to build-up of brass at the neck-shoulder junction. If you do neck-size only, you should experiment with the bushing position. Some shooters get best results only sizing one-half to two-thirds of the neck. Another inexpensive option is the Lee Collet Die. This works by squeezing the neck around a metal mandrel that extends down into the case. Collet dies can produce very low run-out, they don't cause brass build-up at the neck-shoulder junction, and they are inexpensive. However, it is somewhat difficult to precisely control the amount of tension and the collet's fingers can leave marks on your brass. Still, some .308 shooters swear by the Lee die.
Neck-Sizing with Optional Body Sizing: Most .308 shooters can get away with neck-sizing only for a while, but after 4-5 firings extraction becomes difficult. Then it's time to size the brass. An inexpensive Redding body die is the way to go. Getting just the right amount of sizing is the hard part--you want to just size the case enough so that it feeds and extracts easily. With some presses, the ram must be set to "cam-over" in order to size the case enough. This means you must first set the bottom of the die to touch the shell-holder, then screw it down a little further, 1/8th turn at a time."
http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html
"General Reloading Advice
Sierra Bullets reloading .223 Remington rifleThere are no special tricks to reloading the .223 Remington cartridge. Use the same methods and tools you would use for other centerfire cartridges. With anything other than Lapua brass, we recommend you debur the flash hole. Sort by weight if you are loading for competition. Trim the brass to a uniform length and chamfer the case mouth inside and out. We like to use a 28-degree chamfering tool from Sinclair Int'l or Hollands for the inside chamfering, and a 45-degree Forster tool for the outside chamfering. Powder, primer, and bullet selection is discussed in separate sections below. For dies, Forster, Hornady, and Redding sizers and seaters are all good. For shooters who prefer neck-sizing, the Lee Collet Die produces very straight ammo with low run-out. To learn more about advanced case prep techniques, read Preparing Cases for Long-Range Accuracy by Jacob Gottfredson.
Sierra Bullets reloading .223 Remington AR15 rifleReloading for AR15s and other .223 Rem Gas Guns
With their multiple bolt lugs and rapid locking/unlocking, AR15s are more sensitive to pressure and bolt thrust issues than stout, modern custom bolt actions. There is also a risk of slam-fires in AR15s. Therefore, some high-end loads that may work in a BAT, Barnard, Borden or Stiller bolt action will be too hot for an AR15. This is why Sierra issues a completely separate load map for AR15s chambered in .223 Rem and 5.56x45 (see notes above on 5.56x45 throat length concerns). We recommend the you initially reduce loads at least 0.7 grains for an AR15 compared to a bolt action, and never exceed the powder manufacturers' recommended loads. Click on the button at right to download Sierra's latest .223 Rem loads for the AR15.
With bolt-action rifles, if you shoot a moderate load, just neck-sizing the brass is a viable alternative for a few loading cycles, though eventually you'll have to run the cases through a body die or full-length sizing die. However, with an AR15, we strongly recommend you full-length size your cases every time. With proper dies, this does not over-stress the brass or lessen the useful life. For full-length sizing where you need control over neck tension, we recommend the Redding Type 'S' full-length bushing die. If you reload the same brand of brass all the time, another solution is to use a Forster full-length die with the neck honed to give your desired neck tension. Forster will hone its dies to your specification for about $12.00 plus shipping."
http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html
Theres a lot of good advice and shared experience from the above posters. If I was having this problem I would:
1. Give the die a good cleaning. Make sure the brass is clean also.
2. Try a different lube.
3. Try a different die. Either borrow one or buy another.
I would go in that order, from cheap to more expensive. There is a problem somewhere, we just have to find it. I've resized machine gun brass in several calibers. While they were somewhat oversized, none gave me a lot of trouble. Clean brass, clean dies, good case lube, and go slow.
Do this.
Take the LEE LUBE THROW IT AS FAR AS YOU CAN!
Order some RCBS case lube and a pad. Or some Imperial case lube. Or even Canola oil. Yes I have used it.
The only way the Lee lube works is if it is still wet when you size the case. If you let it dry you WILL get a stuck case. Keep some of the case lube on your fingers and roll the case between the wet fingers right before you size it. It is the only way you can get that garbage to work.
So its bad advice to buy a one size fits all sb die but I need to buy a separate custom die for every gun I own???? Never once said sb dies are nessisary for every gun. My point is brass sized by them fits every gun and that cant be said about a standard sizing die or especially a custom die that is cut for one specific gun. Right now I have 9 223/556 guns and 4 308/762 guns. If I had to buy a different die for each or run a certain brand of brass in each it would cost me well over a grand. A rcbs small base x die can be bought for 30 bucks. No brainer to me.Quote:
1. Purchase a Forster .308 full-length sizing die. Measure a loaded round with a bullet seated, and note the outside neck diameter. Then send your die to Forster and for $10 (plus shipping) Forster will hone the neck to the dimension you specify. For bolt guns, we suggest .002" under the neck diameter of a loaded round. For gas guns, go .003" under. Total cost is about $45.00, including the die.
2. Hornady can make you a custom full-length sizing die for about $75.00 plus shipping. Just send them a few fired cases and a reamer print (if you have it). They can create a die that gives you ideal neck tension, as well as just the right amount of sizing at the shoulder and web. Call Hornady and ask for Lonnie Hummel. Scott Parker recently had a die like this made and he reports: "Average runout for 65 rounds was .0004". All 65 rounds showed less than .001" runout."
I completely agree with post # 43. You do not. Do what works for you. My only point is that the long-range shooters do not use small base dies as suggested in your post. Rock on with your small base dies.
ya they use something like a bench rest die. Not to many long range competitors use off the shelf full length die sets. Bottom line is im a shooter and hunter not a long range competitor and and .10 of an inch difference in group size doesn't mean squat to me. What does is my gun going bang every time I pull the trigger. Especially if said gun might be called on to protect my family.
For this application...don't use the Lee case lube, fine for handgun but for this job you want to use STP Oil Treatment , thick greasy stuff , applied by rolling on a pad and size the case partway in the first step , lube the case again and finish sizing in a second step. Removing the decapping rod for the initial sizing will also help . Feel for resistance on the press handle....if it's hard going in...stop, withdraw the case and smear the STP around evenly and try again. If it goes in hard it's going to be harder to withdraw and that's when the rim pulls off.
I wonder if you have brass fired in a machine gun....if so be sure and check for crimped in primers.
I recently finished doing 500 military cases fired in a machine gun. They were free but the work to get resized and the crimps removed sure seemed like a lot of work !
Good Luck
Gary
I resized several thousand .223. I had the rim ripped off several times until I started using Hornady lube. I got a small bottle like 4 oz. for $4.00. After that I had no more problems. I used a lube pad and a neck brush. The Hornady is better than RCBS and Lee which I used before.
See. I HATE that stuff. You have to use it wet. Then you get dents all over the cases. The only thing I use it for now is to lube a brush to clean the inside necks of rifle cases. I just wipe a little on the brush to help clean the inside of the necks before sizing. Its the only thing I use it for now.
I use the Imperial sizing die wax for sizing cases I have a cotton bath towel impregnated with it for large batches I lay the towel out and pour a few hundred casesin it then a finger of the Imperial die wax and grab 2 corners in each hand and raise and lower hands agitating cases for a few minutes. Every so often I can just use the towel with out adding lube. fold the towel up and store in a ziplock bag until next use.
I use the lee water soluable lube but not for case sizing, I makes a good release agent and I have used it thinned 4 parts water to 1 part LSDW for wetting and lubing paper patches. I suspect it is a repackages drawing lube. We used a drawing lube forming 2 piece cans And the Lee looks feels and acts about the same, ours came into the can plant in 55 gallon drums.
I too have tried the Lee Case Sizing Lube. After the first try I went back to Hornady Unique, comes in a little tub. I will dip the neck in moly powder and lube the outside of the case with the Unique lube. I use a lot of LC headstamps and have little trouble using a Lee full-length sizer or a Redding full-length bushing type full-length sizer. I do use a small-base size die for LC cases that are going to be sized and chopped to 300 Savage. Again your case lube is probably the problem. My 308's are Savage 99's, I have not had reason to use small-base dies for any of the 5 or 6 I shoot regularly.
Used rcbs lube since I started never had a problem ,use a lube pad and also lube inside the neck .