Finally got back to 1903a3 load testing and finally a decent load!

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Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze

Just got an 8 lb jug of 2400 a few months ago. I shall try that load out as I have several hundred 311299 projectiles cast. I've just got to size and lube 'em.

Just got to love old army rifles and it will be interesting to see which of these Springfields shoot the load the best.

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What boolit are you using with your 4759? What charge weight? Finally on your 1903's what sight setting do you use? I just loaded some 311299s sized to .311 with a starting weight of 21.5 gr of 4759 per my manual. My most difficult issue is what sight setting get to start with.

I use the 311299 with 17 gr of 2400 but can never get on paper at 100 yards because of the sight setting issue. I find myself sticking to 25 yards just so I don't get frustrated and give up.

Any help you can offer would be much appreciated.

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Originally Posted by mac1911

I have a lee 309 175 grain mold, 314299 sized to 310 and a 310 165 grain flat nose ranchdog mold which so far is the best shooting bullet. Driven as hard as 1800fps with no leading but accuracy seems to fade... right now 16-17.5 grains of 2400 with the ranch dog and tumble lube gets the best results out at 200.

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What sight settings are you using with the 314299s and those charge weights of 2400 at 100 and 200 yards respectively? Thanks

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Originally Posted by AggiePharmD

What sight settings are you using with the 314299s and those charge weights of 2400 at 100 and 200 yards respectively? Thanks

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Current rear sight setting is 700 for 200 yards for the flat nose with 16 grains of 2400 center hold I'm hitting 10 ring.
I need to get a shorter front sight.

Usually I need to set my rear sights on battle rifles somewhere around the 400yd mark to zero at 100 yds when shooting reduced, cast boolit loads.


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Originally Posted by fatelvis

Usually I need to set my rear sights on battle rifles somewhere around the 400yd mark to zero at 100 yds when shooting reduced, cast boolit loads.

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That's my usual setting too with the 03A3. On my 1903s with the ladder sight, the battle sight works well at 100 yards. My Krag also shoots the 314299 bullet to zero at 100 yards when using a setting of 400 yards. Mausers and Swiss K31s also seem to be zeroed fairly well at 100 yards with a 400 yard setting.

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I need to get a shorter front sight.

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The original 1903 front sight blade is quite a bit shorter than the 1903A3's front sight blade. You should be able to find one "on-line" for a reasonable price. That should work out well for you and if you are so inclined, you can also get the issue front sight protector for the 1903. When used it gives you kind of a globe front sight picture with the shorter 1903 front sight.

1903 front sights on E-Bay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...&ul_noapp=true

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Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze

That's my usual setting too with the 03A3. On my 1903s with the ladder sight, the battle sight works well at 100 yards. My Krag also shoots the 314299 bullet to zero at 100 yards when using a setting of 400 yards. Mausers and Swiss K31s also seem to be zeroed fairly well at 100 yards with a 400 yard setting.



The original 1903 front sight blade is quite a bit shorter than the 1903A3's front sight blade. You should be able to find one "on-line" for a reasonable price. That should work out well for you and if you are so inclined, you can also get the issue front sight protector for the 1903. When used it gives you kind of a globe front sight picture with the shorter 1903 front sight.

1903 front sights on E-Bay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...&ul_noapp=true

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Unless he does not make them any more I got my current front sight blade and protector bill Bentz. Went with the USMC .100" thick front sight. Now that this rifle is dedicated to cast I need a different height.
At 100 yards most of my rifles shooting cast are at that 400 setting also.

This is for the 1903a3 From BobS of CMP forum and helped me greatly

Change in Range MOA
200-250 1.5
250-300 1.7
300-350 1.9
350-400 2.1
400-450 2.1
450-500 2.1
500-550 2.4
550-600 2.6
600-650 2.8
650-700 3.0
700-750 3.3
750-800 3.8

So if you can get your sights zeroed for the load you want in the lower end of the ladder you will have finer adjustments.
If I did not shoot this rifle in cmp Springfield match I would put the Lyman target receiver sight on.

Thanks guys for the info on sight settings. I may actually get to enjoy finding the paper next time out. :bigsmyl2:

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Originally Posted by AggiePharmD

Thanks guys for the info on sight settings. I may actually get to enjoy finding the paper next time out. :bigsmyl2:

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For new loads I just put a target stand at 25-50 yards using a 36" wide by as long as you want piece of painters paper on the stand. Draw a aim point on it and set shoot. You will have most of the info you need at that point.
If you know your velocity you can use a,ballistic calculator to figure out more info.
My 16 grain 2400 load hits about 2" high of point of aim at 25 yards.

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Originally Posted by mac1911

For new loads I just put a target stand at 25-50 yards using a 36" wide by as long as you want piece of painters paper on the stand. Draw a aim point on it and set shoot. You will have most of the info you need at that point.
If you know your velocity you can use a,ballistic calculator to figure out more info.
My 16 grain 2400 load hits about 2" high of point of aim at 25 yards.

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Thanks for that info. I've been putting off getting a chronograph but I guess I need to bite the boolit so to speak.

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Originally Posted by AggiePharmD

Thanks for that info. I've been putting off getting a chronograph but I guess I need to bite the boolit so to speak.

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close enough has done me ok to this point BUT I do have a crony and it does help even if you just get ball park figures. If your working with battle rifle sights with gross adjustments "guessing" works out ok also.

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If your working with battle rifle sights with gross adjustments "guessing" works out ok also.

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I agree. Chronos are neat, but really not necessary, especially when you're first getting your feet wet. Just find if you're hitting high or low, and adjust your sights accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze

Mac1911,

Look for the Lyman models 48 or 57. Redfield also made a nice sight for military rifles, such as the Mauser and Springfield.

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no idea what sight this is. I snagged it from a random parts bin at a LGS
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t...psuqh1gbg3.jpg
I found a 17a XNA front globe but it does not fit the reproduction base I bought from newmerich ?
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t...psq5e3dnay.jpg

My guess from looking at the elevation and deflection knobs is that it is a Redfield sight. The rounded version knobs were used on sights intended for hunting, but the mechanism is the same with either target or hunter's knobs. A Lyman sight will be marked on the base and the elevation slide and is easy enough to ID. Redfields generally have the name on the the sliding scale over the elevation slide.

If you bought a 1903A3 front sight base, then the Lyman 17A will not work. The O3A3 front sight base was designed to reduce manufacturing time and cost by Remington and is a bit more primitive than the original 03 front sight base.

A Lyman sight on my ersatz 1903 match rifle.

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Originally Posted by Scharfschuetze

My guess from looking at the elevation and deflection knobs is that it is a Redfield sight. The rounded version knobs were used on sights intended for hunting, but the mechanism is the same with either target or hunter's knobs. A Lyman sight will be marked on the base and the elevation slide and is easy enough to ID. Redfields generally have the name on the the sliding scale over the elevation slide.

If you bought a 1903A3 front sight base, then the Lyman 17A will not work. The O3A3 front sight base was designed to reduce manufacturing time and cost by Remington and is a bit more primitive than the original 03 front sight base.

A Lyman sight on my ersatz 1903 match rifle.

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It's a 03 base. Im wondering is the front base on the 1922 M1,M2 22cal a bit different. Although the box says what it says the sight has no markings? The dove tail "fits" it's just the space between the sight and base?
Nemerich has both listed with same part number but a different prefix at the end
A or B(1922 M1/M2)

I've seen a few of the 1922/M1/M2 rifles with the Lyman 17A front sight on the 1903 front sight base. No idea why yours won't fit (photo above?) other than it looks to be an aftermarket base and not an original 1903 front sight base. The front sight "key" sticking out the back indicates that it isn't original or has been modified. Original bases completely conceal the sight base key.

My own M2 rifle still has the original base and front blade.

By the way, the original .22LR Springfields came with a long slide Lyman rear sight.

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Originally Posted by mac1911

One of the guys on the line said I had advantage using these loads...and would call for a DQ if I was at a larger match.
I to remind him of the rules or lack of for ammo. My ammo is safe and appropriate for the rifle that's about the only rule there is. For 200 yards they are great!

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You've got to be kidding. What a whinebag and an embarrassment to himself. If anything you're handicapping yourself, especially if there's any crosswind at all.

"Bob S" who used to post here quite a lot, (going from memory here) got his Master classification back in the '70's shooting cast, 311291 I believe it was, @ 200 and 300 yards then switching to Sierra MK's for 600 yd. prone.

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Originally Posted by mac1911

nice day and some fun shooting. now if I can just find some time to practice off hand and tighten my off hand groups up!

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Tell ya how I used to practice my offhand, I took a manila folder and with a magic marker drew a black circle about 3/8" in diameter on it and taped it to a storage cabinet in my shop. From 17' or so away, the sight picture was all but identical to a 6" bull @ 100 or 12" @ 200, and I'd spend a lot of time dry firing my K-31 at that pseudo target. Helped my offhand shooting immensely.

Keep up that good shooting!

35W

Found the post regarding Bob S: Clips That Work (Post #11)

From the post:

"John:

I distinguished in 1989; I got my first leg with a Mk2-1 (Navy M1 with 7.62 barrel) and finished with a heavy match M14. I was shooter, coach, and sometimes captain of the Navy rifle team from 1986 to 1993, when I retired. I have not fired in a registered match since then, so I have lost my Master classification. All of my shooting since then has been with old military stuff, and mostly with cast bullets, in "local-yokel" as-issued matches. I started shooting high power in 1965 with an 03A3/Lyman 48 and cast bullets; took time off for my first hitch in the Navy, got out in 1972, picked up the 03A3 again, and made Master for the first time in 1973, with that rifle and cast bullets at 200 and 300 yards. Had to resort to Sierra 168 grain Internationals for 600 yards, but a lot of the matches were only 200 and 300 yards, the prone slow fire being fired on reduced targets at 300. "The Load" was 311284 and 40 or 42 grains of WW II surplus 4831. These days, I shoot more 311291's with from 15 to 18 grains of 2400, and mostly at 100 and 200 yards. The load works well out to 200. On my '03's it takes about 54 clicks on my O'Hare micrometer to get centered up at 200 yards, and that translates to about 800-850 yards on the leaf.

Resp'y,
Bob S. "

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Originally Posted by 35 Whelen

You've got to be kidding. What a whinebag and an embarrassment to himself. If anything you're handicapping yourself, especially if there's any crosswind at all.

"Bob S" who used to post here quite a lot, (going from memory here) got his Master classification back in the '70's shooting cast, 311291 I believe it was, @ 200 and 300 yards then switching to Sierra MK's for 600 yd. prone.



Tell ya how I used to practice my offhand, I took a manila folder and with a magic marker drew a black circle about 3/8" in diameter on it and taped it to a storage cabinet in my shop. From 17' or so away, the sight picture was all but identical to a 6" bull @ 100 or 12" @ 200, and I'd spend a lot of time dry firing my K-31 at that pseudo target. Helped my offhand shooting immensely.

Keep up that good shooting!

35W

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I do have a few "dots" around my basement that I will dry fire on. Just not as much time in the basement these days. My usual practice is the daisy 853 @ 25 yards. With JSB match pellets I can sneak down near 2moa prone sitting and dip under 5moa standing. This does take a bit more than I have been doing in the past few years. "In the black" is a darn good day at the range for me.
Next match is M1 and AR(cmp modern military) I was hoping to have a cast load ready for the AR for this match. I also want to get one of my Garands set up for cast.

And easy fix to get your front site /base issue up and running is to just epoxy a small piece of shim stock on one side of that dovetail of either the base or the site .
Keep at it in those matches your doing great and I will second what 35 W said about dryfire practice at that little black dot . It helped me tremendously with my offhand in the off season or when I couldn't make it out the actually shoot . When I first started shooting in those type of matches my OH was low 70's when I finally gave it up I was in the low 90's ,one thing a few guys with way more experience than me share with me about OH is you have tons of time get your natural point of aim , be comfortable and there's no need to take rushed shot . If your feeing strain trying to steady your rifle stop lower your rifle take a few breaths and try again .
Like I said keep at it ! There's great satisfaction beating out some of the AR guys shooting an old war horse with cast bullets !

Tim

Here's what my M1903A1 NM Type II does with the 164 gr 30 XCB and a 158 gr 311466 using SR4759 and 2400 powders with a Dacron filler. I built the rifle starting with just a DHT action the only part I've not found is a right side safety. I used a new Remington 4 groove barrel. It shoots 10 shots of my 175 gr MK loads into moa all day long.

Attachment 196695Attachment 196696Attachment 196697

I dovetailed the Lyman 17A sight into the '03 front sight base, soldered it in place and then trimmed up the sides. I got the correct height from measuring Scharfschuetze's M1903 front sight.........;)

Cases were LC 67 M72 match and primers were WLRs. Bullets GC'd with Hornady's, were sized .311 and lubed with 2500+.

These targets (NRA 600 high power reduced to 100 yards) were shot with the 30 XCB over 19 and 21 gr of SR4759 with a Dacron filler. I only chronographed 10 shots each with an Oehler M35P. The 19 gr load is a 15 shot group and the 21 gr group is a 20 shot group. On the 21 gr target I dropped for points on that score for a 196-10X.

Attachment 196703Attachment 196701

This is 3 consecutive test groups with 18 gr 2400 with a Dacron filler under a 311466 sized .311, GC'd with Hornady's and lubed with 2500+.

Attachment 196700

Even with the match Lyman 48 rear sight and the Lyman M17A aperture from my old eyes won't hold much better than that.

Larry Gibson