If you (think) you have a S&G spin dial lock on your gun safe...

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Originally Posted by JimB..

That I get, but that’s all with a front reading dial. Take a look at 6730-200. Here is one, it is not priced well. https://safeandlockstore.com/sargent...-lock-package/
I assume it’s all the same guts, so same quality. I ask because I think I like the idea but have never had one.

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That is more or less the same as the common -100 lock.
However; it has some extra features.
For being so well built and with a rather limited production, that price is about what you'd expect.

It's called 'manipulation proof'. They are used on big, high security safes like a jewelry store would have
that has a few million dollars worth of inventory stored in it at night.
The govt. buys a few of them too, mostly for the super tough file cabinets with highly classified stuff in them.
They're probably used where they keep all the UFO and Kennedy assination secrets:bigsmyl2:

Look at pictures of the -100s. There is hook that follows and gently rides the 3 wheels. When the combination is done, it drops into the notches or the gate of the wheels that hold the combination numbers.

The -200s have some more parts in there that pick that little arm up off the wheels when the lock is 'locked'.
On -100s, with skill, and lots of practice, a few people can feel the hook sort of skip when the it passes over a gate
in a wheel. If you are good, and know the lock- you can figure out the combination from that.


On the -100, when you do the combination, the little bar drops into the opening or gates on the combo. wheels.
Then you turn it back past 0, and you can feel the bar lift up, pulling the locking bolt up.

On the -200, the bar is lifted up off the combo wheels.
So when you do the combination (correctly),,, you turn the dial back to '0'.
It is spring loaded, and you push it in. Then the bar drops into place in the gates,
and you can now turn it on back towards 90, lifting the actual locking bolt on the lock to open the safe.

As I've said before, the few people that can manipulate a safe lock---
they won't come to your place looking a few Silver Dollars and Grandpa's old Winchester .30-30.
They'll be down at a jewelry store going after a few million dollars for a couple hours of work.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

That is more or less the same as the common -100 lock.
However; it has some extra features.
For being so well built and with a rather limited production, that price is about what you'd expect.

It's called 'manipulation proof'. They are used on big, high security safes like a jewelry store would have
that has a few million dollars worth of inventory stored in it at night.
The govt. buys a few of them too, mostly for the super tough file cabinets with highly classified stuff in them.
They're probably used where they keep all the UFO and Kennedy assination secrets:bigsmyl2:

Look at pictures of the -100s. There is hook that follows and gently rides the 3 wheels. When the combination is done, it drops into the notches or the gate of the wheels that hold the combination numbers.

The -200s have some more parts in there that pick that little arm up off the wheels when the lock is 'locked'.
On -100s, with skill, and lots of practice, a few people can feel the hook sort of skip when the it passes over a gate
in a wheel. If you are good, and know the lock- you can figure out the combination from that.


On the -100, when you do the combination, the little bar drops into the opening or gates on the combo. wheels.
Then you turn it back past 0, and you can feel the bar lift up, pulling the locking bolt up.

On the -200, the bar is lifted up off the combo wheels.
So when you do the combination (correctly),,, you turn the dial back to '0'.
It is spring loaded, and you push it in. Then the bar drops into place in the gates,
and you can now turn it on back towards 90, lifting the actual locking bolt on the lock to open the safe.

As I've said before, the few people that can manipulate a safe lock---
they won't come to your place looking a few Silver Dollars and Grandpa's old Winchester .30-30.
They'll be down at a jewelry store going after a few million dollars for a couple hours of work.

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THANKS. I didn’t realize that they were so different. I’m happy with the security provided by the -100.

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Originally Posted by JimB..

THANKS. I didn’t realize that they were so different. I’m happy with the security provided by the -100.

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I'm glad folks enjoyed the thread, and hopefully learned something, or set aside their fears and concerns.

When I was in the industry, one of our policies was that we never sold a used lock, even on a used safe.
I could have snagged anything for free, but never did, a -200MP, or a 4 wheel MP, S&G even has some
that the wheels are nylon. They can't be x-rayed to find the combo, and if they get hot, they just melt.

If ya go to the S&G home page, you can find what the inside of MP locks look like in their 8000 series.
They're like the -200s but with a couple more features like giving false feelings when trying manipulate them.


I'm perfectly content with the couple of -100s I kept for myself.
As they age, they seem to get smoother and 'slicker' too.
I have a well used -100 on my gun safe that is at least 40 years old.
It seems to be smoother than when I put on almost 20 years ago.

I have a S&G spin dial lock on my "residential safety container" that gets opened at least once a day, sometimes more. It's around 15 years old and is smooth as butter. BTW I change the combo every few years, and keep the combination as a secret code phone number in my phone directory. There just not that hard to learn to use fast, but my wife can't open it, even with me standing there telling her what to do!

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Originally Posted by Thundarstick

but my wife can't open it, even with me standing there telling her what to do!

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Being in the industry, used safes sort of come to you. Some we were well paid to make disappear.
Damaged ones, 'left behinds' when people move, etc. Most that could be rebuilt.
There isn't too much involved with rebuilding one--- it isn't much more than a box with a door on it.

Mrs. Winger kept 'needing' to put stuff in my gun safe.... but couldn't work the spin dial-- or more nearly wouldn't learn it.
So I snagged and rebuilt one she could have for her own, and put a AMSEC ESL electronic lock on it.
Then, after 6-7 years, grind my teeth when its working fine,,,,,, pull it off and replace it.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

kept 'needing' to put stuff in my gun safe.... but couldn't work the spin dial-- or more nearly wouldn't learn it.

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I feel your pain.

BTW, informative thread. Thanks

Ed, It's beenover 20 years since I was a professional safe tech, and that was before the electronic locks became common. I have done some work on the Mas-Hamiltons. Even they need to be drilled ocassionally.
Is the "cheap chinese knock off" you refer to a LaGarde? I didnt know they had shipped production to China. I never had any more problems with them than the S&Gs but the S&Gs just feel better.
Your post brought back memories. Clackety clack manipulation resistant Mosler locks.
Some of the odder government contract stuff. If you have access to the older NSO and Savta magazines, 5 or 6 articles were authored by me. I enjoyed the mechanical challenge, but the money wasnt that good as I was working for someone else. I also figured out I didn't like having to react to everyone else's emergencies.

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Originally Posted by pipehand

Is the "cheap chinese knock off" you refer to a LaGarde? I didnt know they had shipped production to China.

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I couldn't remember that name to save my life.

The ones we got in by the thousands were a knock off of them, not a forgery of an S&G.
They did take a LaGarde change key though.

I never even looked at the brand name on them. We'd sit at a 20' table with a row of new safes on it, and zip
them off with screw guns. When the last screw of the lock body came out, we'd flip it into a 5 gal. bucket on the floor.
Slide the bucket and your chair to the next one.

We did buy a lot of LaGarde electronic swing bolt locks, and their key locks that took the round shaft key.
Never a combination spin dial from them though. I don't know why, we just didn't.
I never even looked at the LaGardes to see where they were made. I think I have one of their key locks
somewhere, I'll dig it out and look.


It was a hoot to watch a new kid putting on their first lock, and go through the install so carefully,
test it a few times, and before they closed the door, call me to look at it.
They'd typically say, "Hey, will you take a look at this? Is it right, or what"?

I'd look it over, get a real serious expression, and tell 'em
"Well,,,ahhh,,, , I'm leaning towards "Or what'".

The blood would go out of their face,,,, and then I tell 'em,
"Nah. it's good.... In fact, now you're qualified to teach this class".

I can say my safe supplier got back with me, even though it's been 13 years since I bought it, and said they could do upgrades, no problem.

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Originally Posted by armoredman

I can say my safe supplier got back with me, even though it's been 13 years since I bought it, and said they could do upgrades, no problem.

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That's good. It tells ya they are a reputable outfit and have at least one old gu-ru locksmith on staff.

They had to pull out a fat check book,,,,, but we had one that they'd put on a plane
and send all over for things nobody else could,
or would do without making a mess.

Chose not to "upgrade" to electronic when I bought my Superior Master, S&G II was just fine by me.