Not an answer for the OP but my flattop in 44 special will be the last to go. It has become my favorite revolver. I don't understand why there isn't more of them. Everyone that shoots mine feels the same. Super easy to shoot accurately.
Tony
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Not an answer for the OP but my flattop in 44 special will be the last to go. It has become my favorite revolver. I don't understand why there isn't more of them. Everyone that shoots mine feels the same. Super easy to shoot accurately.
Tony
How many 357 & 44 mag revolvers out of all them out there are used to fire Magnum ammo? The answer is very few. Also why do people buy JHP or JSP to shoot paper? I had to learn the hard way but found 38sp, 44sp and 45 Colt ( all with cast boolits ) more accurate and more pleasant to shot.
The main animal I might shoot is deer and I have taken them with all and cast.
I don't think Skeeter started writing until the 60's. His earliest writings tell of frustrations trying to find 357 and 44 revolvers in the late 40's. I think Doug Wesson and his stories about the new 357 mag and his safari put more people on to the 357 and away from the 44 for a while in the 40's. The fact that Colt preferred the 44-40 has always made the 44 special difficult to locate. In the NW many went to the 45 AR on 1917 revolvers because they couldn't find 44 spls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Gebirgsjager
112 years ago, S&W was simply looking to sell guns. Colt was raking in cash hand over fist with their new series of Swing out cylinder revolvers and modern Semi-automatics. While their break tops were still selling pretty well and the M&P series was doing very well, the high dollar "big gun" market was pretty much all Colt. "New and improved" applies not only to laundry soap.
After the success they had with the 38 Special, Military and Police revolvers, a new, more powerful big bore seemed to be a natural. "Special" meant more powerful and "New" Not wanting to put the name of their arch rival on the gun, that meant the 45 Colt was out, and they had the tooling for the 44 Russian revolvers on hand, which were famous, if not popular, for their accuracy: the 44 "Special" seemed to be a natural. They came out with the 1st Model Hand Ejector, the Triple Lock, the finest revolver ever made in the eyes of many. It was expected to be another bonanza. Sadly, it was not. Colt was selling 3 New Service Pistols for every Triple Lock. The US Army chose the New Service for it's 1909 Service Pistol. When the first World War started, hundreds of un-sold guns were re-chambered to .455 for British Service. In total, fewer than 40,000 New Century's or successors thereof were manufactured in 44 Special. WWII put payed to all non-war related production and after the war, the .357 magnum and the later 44 Magnum, took what little wind remained in the 44 Special's sails. S&W produced less than 500 per year on average from 1946 until 1966 when production was halted altogether. Except for a handful Colt SAA's and the introduction of the Charter Arms bulldog, the caliber was moribund. Smith and Wesson, at the urging of Charles A. Skelton (IMHO, the finest gun writer that ever lived), produced another 25,000 + Model 24-3's and 624's in the Mid 80's, and Colt, Taurus and Rossi and Charter Arms added a few thousands to the list, but I doubt if more than 100,000 total, including 21st century production, 44 Specials have been made. Ruger has probably produced as many 44 Specials as anyone in the last 50 years.
The 44 Special was (and remains) a niche cartridge, beloved by the cognoscenti and ignored by most everyone else. It doesn't do much of anything that other cartridges don't do. Had it not been for Skeeter Skelton's advocacy in the 1960's and 70's, I believe it would have withered away altogether.
I believe the 4" N frame in .44spl is the best all around revolver outside of Grizzly country. Skeeter type loads and 16 to 17gr 2400 with a 240 to 260gr cover 95% of big bore handgunning needs. JMHO-YMMV......
Great post, along with a lot of good information on the this thread as well. Kieth was was one of the greatest users of the 44 special and grandaddy of the 357 and 44 mag. But he was only 9 when the 44 special came out. Its creators are who interest me. Were there prominent names of the day influencing S&W for the 44 special, or any notables in their company ranks? Or was this just another marketing department of talented and forgotten names.Quote:
Originally Posted by rintinglen
I was under the impression ( don't recall where I got this) that the 44 special was intended to modernize the 44 Russian with smokeless powder the Russian was a successful target cartridge in its day , the special was loaded to the same velocity and bullet weight , the longer case was to keep the smokeless loads out of the older 44 Russian black powder guns. With the intent to build off the success of the 44 Russians reputation as a target pistol.
You may have gotten that from Hatcher:Quote:
Originally Posted by onelight
For what it's worth: My gun mentor for over 50 years (may he rest in peace) usually had a simple (some would say simplistic) explanation for his decisions. His first love was for fine single-shot target rifles, but he owned more than his share of handguns. And although he was a big fan of Elmer Keith, he did not own a .44 Special. I once asked, "Why no .44 Specials?" His simple answer: "The Russian is a better target cartridge and the Magnum is better for hunting." I should add that he owned a minty S&W New Model 3 in .44 Russian, a couple of fine Colt New Service Target models in .44 Russian, and a 5-screw S&W M-29 with an 8-3/8" barrel.Quote:
When the first smokeless powders came into use, the cartridge case of the .44 Russian was not large enough to enable these powders to be used in full charges and to meet this difficulty a new cartridge was designed with the same bullet as the .44 Russian and a longer case. It retains the highly accurate .44 Russian bullet and equals the .44 Russian cartridge in accuracy while it excels it in power. (from Hatcher's Textbook of Pistols and Revolvers, page 366)
pettypace Hatcher may be where that trace of a memory came from .
Thanks for the reminder.
In 1908, The Wesson family still owned Smith and Wesson and I believe Joseph Wesson and his brother Herbert ran the business, one as President and one as Vice President. As to who actually designed the 44 Special, I don’t know. Probably the Superintendent and his assistants, but their names are unknown by me.
If you are a revolver shooter and have never read "Sixguns" you have missed a lot .Quote:
Originally Posted by mickbr
One book isn't going to put anyone into financial ruin .
In my honest opinion, the plan was a nefarious plot to entice me to spend money on revolvers I don't really need.
But I want them...maybe it's Skeeter's writings. Maybe it's some terrible character flaw in my makeup.
I might be wrong but didn’t the 44spec cause problems in Colt revolvers when first out? And that’s why Colt stayed with 44/40.
I think Colt and Smith & Wesson both had a problem chambering a gun for a cartridge with the others name on it .
That was actually a good, insightful comment on several levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelight
The .44 Special always works in the SAA with no problems. I have several .44-40 cylinders for my Colt’s and they do hang up because the .44-40 rim is thicker. Jeff Milton, famed Indian fighter reported the same problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50
.44 Special came out in 1908 as the primary chambering for the debut of the new "New Century" aka "Triple Lock" Revolver, being S & W's first big Frame 'Hand Ejector' Revolver.Quote:
Originally Posted by mickbr
.44 Special was the same FPS and same Bullets, and same Ballistics as .44 Russian had been, only .44 Special was a Smokeless Round, rather than being a Black Powder Round.
.44 Special was a little longer Cartridge Case than .44 Russian, to prevent it being used in the Big Frame Top-Breaks which by then were dating as far back as 1872.
No one was Hot-Rodding it then, and no Elmer Keith or anyone else fooling with it.
Target Shooters generally tended to prefer to stay with .44 Russian for some while yet, but, .44 Special was also found agreeable for Competitive Target use and held it's own.
Whatever anyone did with it several decades later in Home Loads, is a whole other question.
Originally, it was simply a good, honest Cartridge for any use, which would do the same as Black Powder .44 Russian did, but .44 Special did it with Smokeless.
.44 Special has never enjoyed the popularity which .44 Russian had in it's Day, and .44 Special has never been adopted by anyone's Military anywhere ( while .44 Russian was adopted by many Militaries around the World, Russia, Japan, Turkey, some South American Countries, I forget who else, in it's Day )...even though it is of course a very fine Cartridge, and, as we all know, can have very flexible Loadings to suit a wide range of applications.
Yes...this is my appreciation also.Quote:
Originally Posted by onelight
Although, .44 Russian arguably stayed and probably remains the superior Target Cartridge of the two.
Target Shooting then, was often fifty Yard or fifty Meter, and of course, one Handed.
Records set in the 1880s, 1890s with Black Powder .44 Russian, ( or also BP .38 - 44, and .32 - 44 ) are said to still be unbroken.
These were 3 inch Bulls Eyes also I think.
Cantankerous old pharts who cast , reload, read Elmer Keith, and appreciate a good all around revolver cartridge.
Hey I represent that statement :guntootsmiley:Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumbcocker