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Here is a picture of the first 585HE to be done and firing,
in Australia, owned by the poster, tankhunter on AR forums.
Fellows there can get cases from Bertram. I can send
dies and reamers.And can get dies from CH4D.
There soon will be 3 reamers there.
And now a company starting to make 585 barrels there.
I have about 17 here, so no waiting here.
Allan and Grant Swan. in Redbank, Queensland...
allanswan at uplink.net.au.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/tankhunter.jpg
WE have cases with plain heads if guys need some for
wlldcatting, necking down, and they can put on their
own headstamp.Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585plain.jpg
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We've put some of the 585HE bolt guns in composite and Hogue
stocks, and they are rugged for extreme weather. And they
don't break under heavy loads. Prices are nice and they have
aluminum pillars and/or aluminum bedding blocks.
And with their hollow butts very easy to add weight to take up
recoil. If lead and epoxy added to a complete fill of the hollow,
too much weight, so I found a nice cheap substitute.
We now using rubber coated mouse balls that we have bunch of.
They are steel with rubber coating, and the right weight.
They add just the right weight and and wedge in good.
And won't rattle with coating, and we hold them in tight with
a piece of dense foam under butt pad.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/hoguebbk.jpg
We get asked about how much speed potential we have. And
we start by mentioning cases can hold 190-200 gr of ball powder
with the bullets loaded out longer. And have tested those heavy
powder loads with 650 gr jacketed bullets, in the Enfield
pictured I use as one of my test guns.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585enth.jpg
And more fun shooting, using a pistol grip on one of the
585HE falling block test guns. Real heavy loads try to spin us
around like a weathervane.. Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585tact.jpg
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A related case to our 585 is the 24ga FH that has 3" chamber and
brass cases reworked 577NE cases, that we reduce the rim down
to .720"... the 24ga size rim...We make minimum chamber so that 24ga
plastic cases, 2.5" long just fit. And min chamber cuts down on a lot
of brass case expansion, which the wears cases out.
The barrels are same bore barrels as our 585 and the hollowbase minie
bullets work great in it, the ones that are .585", 440gr to 540gr.
Makes hairy 24ga gun for deer, etc. Be useful in shotgun only areas.
Guys on GB sells the .585" minies. And the brass cases, we don't have
to wait for them to be made.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/24galoads.jpg
Here is what 585HE barrel and its monoblock look like before
screwing the barrel in.This one was 585HE, but process same if
monoblocking in 24ga FH...Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/monostub.jpg
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Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I didn't see it. What kind of pressures do these things generally top out at?
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The 585HE top pressures for hairy loads about 65,000psi.
The loads for the 24ga FH in brass cases tops about 35,000.
Here is picture of 585HE with 24ga FH ...585 longer one.
Both use same bullets/slugs, same caliber barrels.
Different easy usages, 24ga FH is an easy setup in break
actions and 585HE in bolt actions and falling blocks.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585-24.jpg
Picture of non-discarding 585/24ga sabot cup I found that holds
458 bullets and slugs tight. It had hammerhead type slug in it that
someone pulled out, and they wouldn't stay in tight after pulled.
Supposed to be for 20ga, But this sabot was a loose fit
in 20ga, though made for 20ga, so I shrunk diameter of bottom rib,
fits perfect, super tight, in 24ga and 585HE. A press in fit gives
good resistance for good ignition. real tight fit.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/458sabot24.jpg
Here is a 24ga/585 discarding sabot that holds .452" 45cal pistol
bullets. Made by Hornady for 58cal Muzzle loaders..
With 250 gr bullet in 585HE, hopped up load will go about mach 4.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/452sabot24.jpg
For ease of getting actions in stocks, I like composites.They are
strong. come colors, many can be painted with tough surface
paint. And They need weight added for big bore use..
An easy way to weight plastic stocks with hollow butts, use rubber
coated computer mouse balls, weight comes out perfect, without being
too heavy if using that much lead. And coating keeps them quiet, and
we hold them in with piece dense foam under butt pad....Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/mouse.jpg
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What is there in Australia to shoot with something that big? Road trains? FWIW, that'd be a Destructive Device under American BATFE regs (but if you were shooting Kodiak with a single shot, that might be about right).
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They have big buffalo there and some there go to Africa to hunt..
And just fun target shooting. Makes holes easy to see...
It is not a DD, Repeat not a DD;
We applied for and got a sporting use exemption as per GCA rules, years ago. All legal...
It is registered as a sporting cartridge with the ATF as per GCA rules...Ed
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First AUS buffalo killed by 585HE. By Tankunter with his Ruger #1.
If you use closeup on picture, you see loaded round on the buffs hide
next to the 585HE Ruger #1.... A nice heavy barreled gun..Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/tankbuff.jpg
I put the 585 in a Savage 112, lots of room lengthwise, figuring out an
extractor is a problem, but then got a look at the savage 212, the 12 ga
one with big diameter bolt and locking lugs. Its locking lugs are bigger
than the lugs in a big PH bolt action. So one day will do one
on a Savage 212, and adjusting extractor to fit no problem...Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/ph212lugs.jpg
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Here is picture of 100 cases loaded with CEB solid nose bullets
and hollowpoints. This bullet is a turned solid with wide meplat
or wide hollowpoint. .
http://www.gunownerstv.com/100ceb.jpg
Here is pic of a Enfield with a jeweled and polished bolt, going
to be 585HE. In the back, Bolt jeweling and polishing done by the
great craftsmen, Bob Snapp, years ago.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585enjewel.jpg
Picture comparing unfired and fired cases showing our tough cases
One on the left fired with 650gr at 2400 and base above belt
didn't hardly expand, Sized the top and reloaded/shot again.
And AHC will make guns now with our 585HE for any wanting
super top quality guns.They have some cases to give to guys
as a sample to show guys the case. Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/baseexp585.jpg
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Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.
The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, called 577 BP Express. then to 3"
and other longer cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet
of .570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This general bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders, it is really interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.
Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have made a
24ga FH, a slight regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the caseheads 24 ga.
For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable price rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, work for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
about a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned 24ga cases made.
We could use 24ga thin cases but they are a pain, expand way too much,
with slug loads which makes resizing without crumpling cases a problem.
Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which the
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun, 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.
Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
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Here is a different look at 585 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
Sabots hold leafd as well as jacketed.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/458-585f.jpg
Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/barlong.jpg
Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.
The here being the US, as well as our group with barrels, dies, cases,
and McGowen with .585 barrels in stock, CH4D with 585HE dies
in stock, gunshops with # 31 shellholders.
And later few retail outlets setup with cases in stock... . Ed
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Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.
And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585-14,5mm.jpg
I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....
http://www.gunownerstv.com/enhandle.jpg
A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/24liteceb.jpg
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For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..
http://www.gunownerstv.com/58hornadyjkt.jpg
Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585bull.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
hubel458
Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.
And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585-14,5mm.jpg
Hey Ed,
I saw this same post on CanadianGunNutz a few days ago.
I am interested in this idea.
I see from the post directly above that you work with Prophet River.
I'll try contacting them soon.
Cheers,
Dean
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Dean- yes an exporter in WA State I can send cases to,
works with Prophet River. The picture is of just a model,
you'd have to get inserts made to fit your chamber.
You can PM me whenever you need info,
we have reamers and dies..Ed
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Info- I have figured a way to get barrels and adapters done quicker
is to ream them here, as long as we have lots of barrel, so a guy could
get a short section chambered from us and then make it adapt to his
PTRD chamber. It would be strong chromolly barrel steel big enough
diameter to make adapter. Ed
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Good read,but my shoulder hurts from looing at the pictures.That looks like it coulg shoot through an Elephant from stem to stern.
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quote-''from stem to stern''
Well maybe some expansion so as to go halfway and dump all
energy in critter and knock it down.And make the
internal damage cavity as big as possible..Ed
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Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..
http://www.gunownerstv.com/585castbul.jpg
But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/58calpen.jpg
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In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.
Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.
http://www.gunownerstv.com/24litebarnes.jpg
Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed
http://www.gunownerstv.com/fbw2pc.jpg