agree on most of that Lloyd. for within the range it is intended for and under most conditions it is fine. but as to top the reason they switched to the 5.56. you can argue this if you want, but it is well documented that the reason they switched was that most fighting went to close range and they needed a lighter weapon that was more controllable with automatic fire an could carry more ammo for long jungle patrols.. it was developed when we were in the jungles of Nam for jungle environments and close engagements. but how much military fighting these days is open range? a small percentage. the rest is MOUT and Cordon and Search. unless you get into the mountains of Afghanistan or the rural areas of the US most of everything is within 200m, and the 5.56 will be no problem. but where they are having problems with the 5.56 is when the insurgents are using their *** antiquated and useless Lee Enfield and Mauser rifles out past 300m-500m.. then the 5.56 becomes near useless as the research and first hand stories say, and it then all turns into indirect fire. tell me im wrong. this is all well documented. this was one thing i was trying to get at for the SHTF situation. in that situation there will be no CAS for you to call. this relying on the fancy CAS and other indirect means is shielding the shortcomings of the 5.56 in long range combat. if they were to remove the radio and all the indirect fire methods then i can bet the situation would change drastically. in the civilian world there is none of this stuff and you must equip accordingly. that is the point i was trying to make. this is not the military. this is civilian world where the rifle is the only means of fire you will have available.
but lets go to the 1980s when Russia was trying to empire build in Afghanistan like we are currently doing.. they had the exact same problem we are having now, the larger bore WWII weapons were an over match for their shorter range AK designs. remember that the 5.45x39 was already in service since the 70s at this time and was also inadequate for the long open spaces of Afghanistan. this stuff is all documented and has been studied to death. it is also why the military is currently actively seeking a better longer range cartridge. if the 5.56 was the perfect round then they would not be looking to upgrade.
but does this look like a dang deer rifle?
Attachment 221530
this is a modified M67 Norwegian rifle. it is the Mauser action and the same forged .308 barrel used by their elite guys. the only difference is the scope, the stock, and the added muzzle brake..
but im still waiting on your grouping with that 5.56. i showed you mine, now show me yours. go outside tonight, while it is dark like i did, and do a 15rnd group that can be covered with a dime. ill wait. i mean if you are so good and the 5.56 is so Superiorly accurate then this should be something you could do in your sleep. in a real SHTF you will most likely have to do night fire, as it is when the idiot cowardly looters like to come after you. this will make it an accurate assessment. and walking around with a flashlight is a big no no. that is like saying "here i am"..
but, somehow this always keeps getting turned into the AR platform Vs full military dress K98. i said i had no problem with the AR. where did i ever say the AR was a ***? for some reason you keep getting a pole stuck up the wazoo about the M98 Mauser and just go after it as if it makes it obsolete and you automatically correct... if you still think the M98 is an obsolete killing rifle then stand down range and let me shoot you with it. but apparently you have never fired a good Mauser with good ammo.
but this is supposed to be about the 5.56 cartridge, not AR Vs M98.. stop getting butt hurt because i insulted you favorite cartridge that is obvious you never used in open range combat. the US will be open range. there is a lot more open spaces than city spaces.
but you never did ever go over to the snipers hangout websites i posted and ask them about the 5.56 and why they do not use it did ya?
but as to the civilian and a bolt action being combat ineffective. who are we fighting in the middle east? they sure as heck are not conventional forces. we are fighting farmers, mostly civilians. and are doing a pretty good job too, being they can tag someone from 600m with a crappy old bolt action that you keep saying will not hold up to a modern military force with the 5.56. and the Russians in the 80s didn't think they were ineffective either. if it were not for the radio and the indirect means of fire the taliban would have a very good advantage with the bolt action SMLE against the 5.56. but as said, in the civilian world you do not have this capability.
and as for recoil being a problem. with a proper muzzle brake the 7.62x51mm can have the recoil of a 9mm carbine. mine is low recoil, actually has less than my SKS. and at 6ft 4in tall and 240lbs (not all fat either) recoil is not a problem for me. now obviously if your a 2feet tall 25lb leprechaun you are gonna have problems with recoil.