Rifles too clean ?

As I was range testing the other day I started out firing a fouler into the dirt and I got to thinking , why? In the old days when I started with a trapdoor I never had to blow off a fouler and I didn't have the first shot way out of group either. I checked my records and saw that I was using sperm oil for bullet lube and for oil. Then I thought back to my muzzleloaders where I use my patch lube for bore grease and I don't have to shoot foulers with that either. Now the bore of my M/L is not in any way rusty, but it is not what I woud call perfectly clean either, more like a seasoned cast iron fry pan. So as an experiment instead of the usual thourough cleaning I give my ctg guns I just swabbwd the Sharps pretty clean and then greased the bore with bullet lube. After 2 sessions of this my first shot is no longer 2 to 2 1/2" high and the bore isn't rusty either. Since I use my guns mostly for hunting I am thinking that I have been over cleaning my bpc rifles. Surely a buff hunter didn't want his first shot going high on him, and I can't see him shooting a foouler into the ground either. Is this sort of like scrubbing a fry pan down to bare metal every time you wash it, you then have to re season it to use it.

Any thoughts?

Only BR guns need to be cleaned after every "relay". After every 15 shot at most. These guns will show a "dirty" barrel quite quickly. Just the opposite for cast because we use the lube/dirt as a seal. ... felix

There is no such thing as seasoning a barrel. It is either clean, dirty or lubed.

Just clean the barrel completely, and then lube it with your bullet lube. The result will be the same. The seasoning theory is just that - a theory. Don't forget that BP residue is hygroscopic (salts), and will eventually cause rust when not removed. But OTOH, it's your rifle, so...

Because B/P is hygroscopic you have a different situation from modern smokless loads in that the gun must be cleaned ever time it is used. Now in a smokless gun if you USE the gun you can shoot your fouler at the beginning of deer season and just not clean until the season is over. Not so with B/P you have to at least remove the fouling. Now as any muzzleloader can tell you if you clean with some solutions you can take all the oil/grease from the pores of the metal and then you have to re oil and do a good job of it to prevent rusting. Thats when the dreaded fouling shot comes into play. My idea is to get out the rust inducing fouling and then just grease the bore. Yes in the eyes of some this may be DIRTY, but look at small bore shooting, we only cleaned the bores of our rifles when accuracy fell off and then fired 20-50 rounds to settle in the bore. I'm lookng at being able to take a rifle off the rack put in a hunting round and hiting the target first time every time and not throwing a bullet 2 or more inches high.

If you use TC's Bore Butter you can get the fouling shot. I've used it and kept checking my rifle for signs of corrosion and after 2 weeks I seen no signs of corrosion. This is there claim. I wouldn't make it a habit of doing this but you could get a fouling shot in the day before hunting season. I found it to be just so-so as a lubricant. I also found out not to use it to coat your gun after cleaning (also their directions)because it attracts moisture and you gun will rust. I ran a patch down the bore of all my guns that I hadn't shot in awhile but knew I coated them with Bore Butter before putting them away and they all had a light coat of rust come out on the patch!

Interesting Moonman, me and some good friends of mine in Ohio, when I lived there, found quite the opposite. I have an inline with a scope and I use the Maxi-Ball, used it with botho BP, Pyrodex, and Triple7...with the TC Bore Butter and first off it shoots like a center fire rifle. Definately under 2 inches at 100 yards with some shots even cloverleafing. It also keeps the bore from rusting within reasonable time periods. Now my one friend, who is my other friends 72 yr old dad, says he thinks Bore Butter is better as a preservitive then a lube. Now Ohio sure isn't an arid state and they have absolutely no rust problem on their firearms coated with Bore Butter.

Now Jimmy, the boy, was given some kind of lube by a very old timer that said it's the best BP lube made and you don't even have to keep your rifle. Well Jimmy did a test on a junker muzzlerloader, shot it a bunch, with that lube, put it away for one year. The bore never rusted. He's sold on it. He showed it to me, it was some white looking stuff like in a salve can, white like Crisco, but harder. I'll have to email Jimmy and see what it is. I saw the rifle when he took it out of the closet, just looked fouled from shooting BP, but no rust or corrosion.

Joe

Starmetal

I was using mine with patch & ball and it burned out the patches. Probubly why my shooting went down some. Have you tried running a clean patch down the barrel after it sat a few months? I wasn't implying that I had a big time rust problem with it but I was getting some rust on a patch after it sat awhile. None on the outside of the weopon though!

moonman,

Yes, I do run a patch down the barrel of my muzzleloader every so often and then relube it again so I don't take any preserving lube off it doing that. I'm not implying you're doing anything wrong, it's just my friends and I have gotten very good results with the TC lube. Like I said I'll have to find out what that white lube Jimmy is using now.

Joe

Well it's good to know. I have a trapdoor in 45-70 and haven't shot the real stuff in it but want to try and was wondering what lube to use. I guess I'll give it a try and see how it works. Can't do much worse than I have already with smokeless! I don't shoot my M/L's that much any more but maybe I should knock the dust off and use them!

mooma76
If you want to shoot a trapdoor you need to get Pat Wolf's book, "Loading Cartridges for the Trapdoor Springfield". The Springfield is a different beast from most rifles and loading for it requires different techniques which the book explains very well. The Springfield is a rewarding rifle to shoot for the history and for the care expended by Springfield to make the rifle. I get more pleasure out of getting my old soldier to shoot again than any other firearm I've ever owned.
Jerry Liles

I have found that cleaning a ML with soap and water till very clean that even
well oiled that it will rust in the barrel. Now clean that barrel well with only water
and oil. End of rust. Only thing I can see is that soap would get in the pores
of the steel and break down the oil? Now I know that the steels today have
a much smaller pores in it than steel (IRON)150 yrs ago. But from what I have
found you can still do a seasoning of a ML barrel. The soap rust I found on my
own but the seasoning was told to me by Doc. Carlson of Crofton NE. One of the
founders of BPCS. Makes sence to me ? Thats what happens with a brain size
of a walnut.

With the run of the mill muzzleloader we're not talking about super tack driving target rifles like used on the benchrest circuit for centerfire smokeless cartridge. With that said I don't see why the muzzleloader manufacturers don't chrome line their bores. I knew of a few that did. This is unless the chromebore would be too smooth? Alittle about chrome lining. ALL of the 22 WSM that Winchester produced were chrome lined and from what I've heard and read, they do shoot. I think it was a bold move by Winchester, especially on a cartridge that would be expected to shoot the smallest groups possible. Thing is they didn't advertise this and it only came out when Winchester got mad about the blogs saying the 22 WSM burned barrels out faster then anything ever known, which was and isn't true.

Joe

Thats the problem Joe, Chrome is too smooth for round balls and patches. We have worked with quite a few and none shot real good. Some were REAL bad.
It also seems like cut rifling is 100% better then a broached barrel too.