How hot before brass is unusable?

There was a bad fire at my dad's house a couple of weeks ago that started in the bedroom and burned through into his reloading room. Unfortunately, he perished in the fire. I am the executor of the estate and sole heir, so am responsible for saving whatever I can.

He had thousands of rounds of BPCR match ammo in plastic ammo boxes that were far enough away from the fire that they didn't melt. But, hot enough that the bullet lube in the grooves all melted out.

There was brass much closer to the fire, as well as loaded ammo. None of the lead melted and none of the rounds touched off. Amazing.

I'm hoping all of the brass should be good; just needs cleaned and tumbled.

Beyond the tragedy of my father's death, is the loss of his most sacred and valued place; his reloading room. 60 years of collecting equipment, tools, secret load recipes, supplies, and memories.

All of it gone.

Attachment 314655

That is so tragic, there are no words for it.

I'd think all the ammo is basically OK except the ones with melted lube.
If the plastic box didn't melt, they can't be hurt too bad.
Even them, they'd probably be OK just re-lubed.

If none of the Lead melted the brass probably didn't get hot enough to even anneal, much less be damaged.
I'd equate it to someone leaving on the dash of a car in the heat of summer. You don't want to, but it survives.
I've had ammo on a shooting bench get so hot in the sun ya about can't pick it up, but it still fired OK.
Modern ammo is tougher than most people think.

So sorry for your loss.

I’d scrap all the brass in a room that had any fire damage.

Brass has to be at around 750 degrees to anneal. If the lead bullets didn't melt, doesn't sound like the temp got to 750. Lube melts if you set it on concrete in the sun, which is below 200 degrees. I'd be less concerned about brass unless it was actually in the fire than I would be about the effects the heat might have on powder degredation, especially over time.

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

That is so tragic, there are no words for it.

I'd think all the ammo is basically OK except the ones with melted lube.
If the plastic box didn't melt, they can't be hurt too bad.
Even them, they'd probably be OK just re-lubed.

If none of the Lead melted the brass probably didn't get hot enough to even anneal, much less be damaged.
I'd equate it to someone leaving on the dash of a car in the heat of summer. You don't want to, but it survives.
I've had ammo on a shooting bench get so hot in the sun ya about can't pick it up, but it still fired OK.
Modern ammo is tougher than most people think.

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/\ This

Condolences on your loss. I am assuming the photo is the before picture. While it may not have gotten hot enough to melt lead or cook off ammo it may have been hot enough to deteriorate powder. Fortunately most powder loses strength when if deteriorates but don't know if it worth the risk to use it, either that still in cans or in loaded ammo. Suggest erring on the side of caution when deciding what is salvageable.

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Originally Posted by Idaho45guy

SNIP>>>

There was brass much closer to the fire, as well as loaded ammo. None of the lead melted and none of the rounds touched off. Amazing.

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I'm sorry to hear of the loss of your father.

Brass from the loaded ammo that didn't pop/ignite is likely good, because if it got to near annealing temp it should have popped, so I would disassemble, clean and reuse it.

Now the empty Brass that was near that loaded ammo could be suspect...I'd just say it's no good and sell it to a recycler. WHY? because the loaded rounds won't heat up as fast, because the bullets and powder will act like a heatsink, it will take longer to get up to the 750º annealing temp, BUT the empty brass without any heatsink, will get hotter quicker. I don't know if there is anyway to tell for sure, if it got too hot, so you just have to assume it did.
That's my 2¢

Try squeezing a case that was closest to the fire and comparing it with one that was not, it may tell you if it got soft.

Slim

So sorry for your tragic loss.

I would think that the primers would cook off way before the brass would be annealed.

Sorry for your lost.

I would think the plastic would have caught fire and turned brown. The plastic bonded with the brass is questionable. If they are just a little funny shaped I would use it. Like a two liter bottle melting. I would have to think most of the items near to the floor are okay, higher in the room or near to open flame and heat is junk. So it not going to be a total lost or all good. Brass would still have a color change if it got hot. Then as Slim said if it's dead soft no spring in the brass it's annealed. You may have to play with some brass and primers and see how hot before the primers blow off or fire.

I at this point would say the water damage from the fire dept would have made more of a problem. Don't forget if brass and ammo were like us setting next to a fire. Few feet away away fine... right next to fire or in the fire we would get cooked so would the brass. So location to the brass would mean a lot one box ?? where and other few feet away is fine. Now any brass above a say 5 feet or maybe 6 feet high in the room as heat raises maybe scrap.

I can recall helping a Aunt and Uncle clean coins in a fire ones that the heat hit were changed in color some were in cased in melted plastic some was in cased in burned plastic same box. Inches away and all in the way the heat was or there location not that silver coins are ammo but still shows the heat was different based on location.

From start to finish the average fire is only minutes old not even part of an hour. Trailer fire under 10 is a total lost. House is around 8 to 10 minutes for a large fire and at around 15 minutes is a total lost. Most doors and walls have a burn time in some construction rating in minutes not very often is it hours or part of an hour.

Sorry to read of the loss of your father.

Annealing can take place at lower temps with a longer soak time in the heat. While we anneal at around 700* for a few seconds,300*- 400* for 1/2 hour 45 mins may soften case heads. While I wouldnt be to concerned for the necks of the cases the heads took the heat for a extended time and may be an issue.

Sorry for the loss of your father.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Winger Ed.

That is so tragic, there are no words for it.

I'd think all the ammo is basically OK except the ones with melted lube.
If the plastic box didn't melt, they can't be hurt too bad.
Even them, they'd probably be OK just re-lubed.

If none of the Lead melted the brass probably didn't get hot enough to even anneal, much less be damaged.
I'd equate it to someone leaving on the dash of a car in the heat of summer. You don't want to, but it survives.
I've had ammo on a shooting bench get so hot in the sun ya about can't pick it up, but it still fired OK.
Modern ammo is tougher than most people think.

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+1
Sorry to hear. Got no words. When my dad drowned he took all my fishing gear with him. Don't miss the gear, miss my father. It's just stuff.

May God comfort you during your time of sorrow.
Ole Jack

Run a squeeze test with finger and thumb, pliers and a vise between it and known safe brass. You should be able to squeeze together annealed brass with your hand.