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I am curious- does anybody win matches using PP'd bullets? Are they consistently winning? consistently in the top 5? In any type of shooting? I played with it a bit and found little more velocity but the accuracy suffered. Just wondering what is showing at the top of the competitors pile. It seemed to me PP'ing is a lot of extra work for no real gain. I don't want to de-rail anybody "fun Train", just wondering.
I believe the most of the top 10 at the bptr matches at Lodi Ws are patch shooters. Other places around the country paper patch shooters do well.
But by the same token how many grease groove shooters that compete in various matches don't win?
The percentage of paper patch shooters is significantly less than grease groove shooters so the high percentage of paper patch shooters in the top 10 indicated that the winners believe the extra effort is worth it.
To each their own, it's all good.Quote:
Originally Posted by ascast
I don't know if Lodi, WI is the only range in the country that is being dominated by paper patch shooters or not. I would find it hard to believe that is the case, but I don't get out much!
I have shot at Lodi for every BPTR match but one since May of 1997. In my early years paper patch bullets were unheard of. I can't remember when it was or who it was, but at some point there was a shooter who finished 3rd shooting PPB and he was very excited about his effort. Somewhere in the early 2000s a guy by the name of Brent Danielson showed up to shoot his first ever long range match with a couple of grease groove shooters who were at that time dominating the matches there. The guy that was winning all the matches and setting new range records all the time was Glenn Fewless. His sidekick finished in second place pretty regularly.
Bent was and still is a diehard paper patcher. Glenn's buddy was a want-a-be paper patcher but didn't know poop about how to get it to work. When he had the chance he asked Brent what was needed and Brent, who is always willing to help someone interested in paper patching, gave the guy good advice apparently.
He put the good advice to work and within a couple of years he was the first to win a match at Lodi with PPB and he went on to win many more matches at Lodi and a few more elsewhere shooting lead bullets wrapped in paper. These days the majority of the top 6 shooters at the matches held at Lodi are shooting paper patch bullets and they will all be smiling big. Somewhere around half the shooters at Lodi are paper patching. Attendance has been down the past several years but paper patching is alive and well.
If done right, paper patching is easy and doesn't take much if any more time than grease grooving. It is very accurate and will win matches. Not everyone who tries paper patching is successful, with or without help, but a few go on to do very well.
I needed a little push when Brent came to Lodi even though I had been fiddling with paper patching for over 10 years and he really just pointed me in the right direction and it all fell together. Today I would not consider loading grease groove bullets for my black powder single shots. Nothing wrong with GG, I shoot plenty of them in other types of firearms, but the quintessential projectile of the black powder cartridge rifle era was and still is the paper patch bullet! And that is the truth!
I'll second DT's post ... and give kudos to Brent for him showing me the PPB way.
I would guess that at best with the exception of Lodi, that most of the target rifle matches there are fewer than 10% shooting patched. Fewer than that in sillhouette. I do know of a 1000 yard gong match that has been won 3 times by patched shooters, and if they don't win they're running in the top 10, out of 50-60 shooters. I also know that in some of the target rifle matches, patched shooters have been at or near the top on some of the individual targets.
But worrying about how many patched shooters are winning is basically wasted effort. It takes a lot of work to win a match, and in a very recent example 21 shooters, I haven't seen an equipment list, but I'll bet there wasn't a single patched shooter, so using critical analysis 20 shooters shooting Swiss powder and grease groove bullets lost...
Don,
I think you are correct, there are probably more grease groovers losing matches evry year than there are paper patchers. Another good reason to wrap them bullets!
Jim, how did it go last weekend at the Lodi match? Our Harris match was the the same weekend and we had 18 shooters there with four new shooters showing up. We're not very good but we have fun. Bob
Bob,
You have a great bunch of guys over there and I know you have fun, I've seen it!
I think we had about 16 shooters. It went well for some, but not so much for the unlucky shooters on lucky target 13! Brent had a disastrous start and it never really got better for him. I had scope problems and couldn't keep 3 shots in a row on paper. Kevin had to deal with two guys that were an absolute mess.
Tony Montello won, Daniel Townsend was 2nd and our head score keeper, Cliff Gregg was 3rd. The rest of us also shot and some came close many times!
The .22 LR at 200 on Friday was good fun.
We had plenty of rain and I don't believe I have ever been wetter than I was on Saturday in the heavy rain. It took me until Tuesday to dry things out. Sunday the rain was pretty light and shooting went better.
We had good weather with no rain. Had to wait for the fog to clear on Saturday with light winds and you couldn't read the mirage. Sunday was bright, very light winds and just switching back and forth mirage. I find it very hard to shoot in those situations. I'd rather have the wind.
1st. Ray Hanson
2nd. Jim Ruch
3rd. Lynn O'Dean
We had the same winds, but lots of rain. We had heavy fog Sunday morning, I think. There was a point were you could not see the berm behind the pits, number boards or targets, just gray. We waited it out and it cleared.
We did have some mirage on Sunday, but the flags were all we could count on from the beginning to the end of a relay. And as usual they did not all point the same direction. I never felt really good about what I had to read conditons while I was spotting. I may have felt I had the handle once or twice all weekend, but it didn't last long.
Yea, it was lots of fun.
The difference between a GG shooter over a PP shooter at matches is the person behind the buttplate and His/Her spotter.
I don't shoot the Nationals for personal reasons but I judge my ability how I finish behind the hard holders that shoot the Nationals and Gong shoots like the Quigley or a couple others. Some of those hard holders at the Nationals that won or made the top 3 shoot the Quigley and some have won the Q a time or two shooting greasers and I see their name under mine at the end of the match I feel my PP loads and spotter did well.
Yes absolutely
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Even a blind PPB squirrel finds a few nuts, sometimes.
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Originally Posted by FrankJD