Why did this work?

I was sighting in a new peep on my slow twist plains rifle. After I was done with making sure a PRB round ball hunting load was sighted in, I decided on a whim to try a few Lyman 54 plains bullets. I only did a couple of loads, but when I got up to 80 grains of 1.5F OE and an over powder wad, the group was starting to approach the round ball load. I was running out of time and didn't pursue it further, but it seemed like a little more load development might get me close to the tight round ball groups this rifle throws. The bullets cast at 430 grains and it seems like it shouldn't work for a 1 in 60-something twist. Why did it work?

I had a couple of slow twist barrels that shot REAL boolits good out to 100 yards.
But if I remember , the load wasn't that hot , and I had to adjust the rear sight up to compensate for the drop on a slower load.
Being a slower load with a heavier Boolits.
I didn't think it would work too well for Elk.
But deer maybe.

Yeah, I did not push the charge past 80 grains, so who knows what would happen at 100 (aside from bruises for me). Looking at the energy numbers in the Lyman black powder book, I bet 430 grains at 1300 FPS would be find for elk out to 75 or 100 yards. I found two of the bullets I fired on the berm and they about turned themselves inside out (and it was a lot of lead).

This year I only expect to get a doe tag for muzzleloader, so a big conical with a massive meplat would be gross overkill. The doe I shot with a 58 ball at 70 yards last fall took a bit too much damage for my liking as a meat hunter, so I am going back to 54. If I get an elk ML tag in the future I would probably use the 58 and would fiddle around with the REAL and minies as well as a ball to decide on what to shoot.

Different - but we shot minies ok in CVA 66 twist barrels so long as we kept the powder charge up (modified the base plug some for a thicker skirt) good fun in a 45, ok in a 50, stopped bein fun pretty quick in my 54, ....I was shooting 120 grains of FFg behind a PRB in that 7 pound gun, a bit of a hero load but it shot so well I kept doin it - working up a minie load was a short lived deal .....why do ya wanna hurt yrself ? so sold the minie mold and dropped the load back to 100grains - that thing has killed a lot of paper since and will stay in the black any time the driver permits it .

Every rifle is an entity unto itself. You never know until you try.

Best answer I have.

Hello brewer12345,

My brother shoots a Lyman GPR in .50 caliber,
last season we experimented with sabots and the LEE 452-200-RF with success.
We loaded 100 gr of 3-F Triple Seven and shot about 5 rounds, no tumbling and on target.
We are planning on trying the LEE 452-255-RF next time we get out to see if it will be stable.
All I can say is you need to think outside of the bun, give the unbelievable a try.

AntiqueSledMan.

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

I was sighting in a new peep on my slow twist plains rifle. After I was done with making sure a PRB round ball hunting load was sighted in, I decided on a whim to try a few Lyman 54 plains bullets. I only did a couple of loads, but when I got up to 80 grains of 1.5F OE and an over powder wad, the group was starting to approach the round ball load. I was running out of time and didn't pursue it further, but it seemed like a little more load development might get me close to the tight round ball groups this rifle throws. The bullets cast at 430 grains and it seems like it shouldn't work for a 1 in 60-something twist. Why did it work?

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Maybe cause they work in mine too , with a Leupold 2x7 out to 180 yds using a base wad over 80 gr OE 3F ! Perhaps I sold those too, I cast and sell on other sites ./Ed

I suppose now I will have to try a few 54 maxis and thick skirted minies I cast and never did anything with.

brewer,

I had the SAME point-of-aim, point-of impact results in my .54 flint Hawken. I bought the .54 in 2002 for deer and bear here in PA and worked with Ball and T/C Maxis I cast in the tractor shed. I found my accuracy load was IDENTICAL: 75 grains of Goex 3F was best and POI/POA at 100 yards.

It does sometimes happen; increase your church pledge. LOL.

Adam

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Originally Posted by Adam Helmer

brewer,

I had the SAME point-of-aim, point-of impact results in my .54 flint Hawken. I bought the .54 in 2002 for deer and bear here in PA and worked with Ball and T/C Maxis I cast in the tractor shed. I found my accuracy load was IDENTICAL: 75 grains of Goex 3F was best and POI/POA at 100 yards.

It does sometimes happen; increase your church pledge. LOL.

Adam

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I will not complain. The only think that was a little iffy was that the bullet went down the bore awfully easy. I am not sure I would trust it to stay put as I hunted.

brewer,

Carry the gun slung gun muzzle UP or Port Arms. I do all times.

Adam

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

I was sighting in a new peep on my slow twist plains rifle. After I was done with making sure a PRB round ball hunting load was sighted in, I decided on a whim to try a few Lyman 54 plains bullets. I only did a couple of loads, but when I got up to 80 grains of 1.5F OE and an over powder wad, the group was starting to approach the round ball load. I was running out of time and didn't pursue it further, but it seemed like a little more load development might get me close to the tight round ball groups this rifle throws. The bullets cast at 430 grains and it seems like it shouldn't work for a 1 in 60-something twist. Why did it work?

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The twist rate depends on when the rifle was made. Earlier GPRs had 1:48.

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Originally Posted by longcruise

The twist rate depends on when the rifle was made. Earlier GPRs had 1:48.

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2007 according to the date code.

The base of the bullets was "bumped" up and the gun was happy with that
and the velocity was acceptable for the twist

Mike

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Originally Posted by brewer12345

2007 according to the date code.

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That should put it into the 1:60 range but I'm not certain.

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Originally Posted by skeettx

The base of the bullets was "bumped" up and the gun was happy with that
and the velocity was acceptable for the twist

Mike

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I imagine that is the case. I find conicals always shoot better with an over powder wad, and some rifles won't shoot them well without it.

I have some heavy skirted minies cast up from a Lyman 533476 mold I will have to try. Like the Plains, I wonder how loose it will be in the barrel, but should be fun to try.

It also depends on the caliber size. The larger the caliber, the less twist is needed to stabilize conicals so 60 is not that slow. One might call it a compromise twist for a 54.

Just had a thought: if I need a slightly snugger fit I could powder coat these bullets and get a couple more thousandths. Would still need lube, but that might keep it in the bore a little better.

I did powder coat some slugs.
It did make them tighter , and very hard to seat down the barrel.
The rifling sometimes cuts thru the powder coating.
So some type of lube would be in order.
I was going to try driving the PC'ed slugs thru a section of the barrel that I had cut off.
That way it would engrave the rifling on the slug.
Then PC the rifled slugs.
But they need to be Indexed so that you insert the slug to match the rifling.
It would be a lot of work.
And I really don't know if it would really improve your groups.

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Originally Posted by mooman76

It also depends on the caliber size. The larger the caliber, the less twist is needed to stabilize conicals so 60 is not that slow. One might call it a compromise twist for a 54.

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I think that would work. I've PCd 452 bullets for a tc .45 and 50 maxi for a Tc 50. They needed sizing but the maxi was a tight fit before pc and the 452 was oversized before PC.

I'm still playing with the lube thing. Using less and less. Starting to think that no lube might be more consistent. Similar to paper patch.