Swaging .22RF jacketed bullets - How hard of lead is okay?

I've been experimenting with my .22RF jacketed bullets shooting into water jugs. I don't have a way of determining the lead core hardness but the guy I bought it from said it was "soft". It seems to be soft just scratching it. My various bullets seem to explode & sometimes don't even exit the back of the jug. Great for small varmint like PD's but I'd like to get more penetration for bigger critters. What's the hardest lead recommended that won't damage the dies? Wheel weights? Linotype? Your thoughts & experiences are most appreciated.

So.. Please clarify what you're making... Are you using 22lr empties as the jacket material for 223 bullets? The way the post is written, it sounds like you are making jacketed bullets for a 22-rimfire.... And that these are blowing up in the water. That doesn't make sense, though, as lead bullets don't blow up at 22lr velocities... Not even Velocitors.

Honestly, both of these sound like the jacket is too thin for the velocities being run.

The classic symptom of insufficient core material strength is blowing up in flight or when they hit the target. You'll shoot one and *poof* about 30-ft from the barrel.. or you'll look at your target paper and it looks like shrapnel hit it.

Anyway, you can use any alloy you can reliably swage. One big factor I have seen is that many lead alloys age harden, so fresh core is a lot softer than 2-3 month old core. If you extrude your own core - start with freshly cast wheel weight lead for easy extrusion. Swage it within a day or two (sooner is better, as it starts hardening the day you make it.). It work-softens from extrusion and swaging, though, so you may want to age-harden it back. Either let it sit a month or two, or force age harden it after swaging with half a day in a 170F oven.

I am de-rimming empty .22 Rimfire Long Rifle cases & forming them into jackets for swaging .224 caliber bullets with a lead core. I cast my cores & uniform them in a core swage die. My question is in regards to using harder lead to retard the bullet's expansion & hopefully increase penetration. I've shot my bullets in weights from 50gr to 60gr out of .222, .223, 5.56 & .22-250 with 1:14", 1:10", 1:8", 1:14" twists respectively. Velocities out of the .22-250 have exceed 3,500 fps & I have never had a bullet disintegrate in flight or show signs of particles sprays or yawing as the bullet entered the target at a 100 or 200 yards. I shot them in the .22-250 just as an experiment & not a primary bullet for that rifle/cartridge. I'm mainly interested in .223/5.56 loads & velocities in the 2,800 to 3,000 fps range.

I weighed a series of various brands of empty .22RF hulls & found that most all average around 10 grs. One particular brand with a big "T" on the bottom averages 10.4 grs which might indicate thicker case walls. I don't have a lot of them but I'll have to try these. After the de-rimming step I usually anneal the hulls. Skipping this step may make the jacket tougher. It is interesting to note that the recovered bullets tend to show the jacket peeled back until flat & a small flat lead disk (half-the thickness of a dime) in the bottom of the jug in addition to all the lead particles.

I assume that you, like myself, have just received the BT Sniper die kit. I have been using essentially dead soft lead for my cores. I’ve only test fired a couple dozen so far just checking function. I’ve recovered a couple from my sand filled tires and found them to be pretty busted up. I think they’ll make excellent coyote bullets.

I use pure soft lead for mine, and I have never had a separation problem up to 3500 FPS. My concern with using a harder alloy is damaging the swaging dies.

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Originally Posted by TyGuy

I assume that you, like myself, have just received the BT Sniper die kit. I have been using essentially dead soft lead for my cores. I’ve only test fired a couple dozen so far just checking function. I’ve recovered a couple from my sand filled tires and found them to be pretty busted up. I think they’ll make excellent coyote bullets.

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I've had my set for several years now. Mine are from RCE. I've made some very accurate bullets over the years but am just now beginning to test them for penetration & expansion. They will turn a small critter like a PD or squirrel into a red mist!

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Originally Posted by 454PB

I use pure soft lead for mine, and I have never had a separation problem up to 3500 FPS. My concern with using a harder alloy is damaging the swaging dies.

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This is the crux of the question that I'm asking. I've read that you can crack a die with too much pressure.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I've heard (never tried) using antimony, never tin, to harden lead is doable. Have you tried bonding? Never tried that, either. I've taken my swaged 37 gr 223s just past 4250 fps with my 1-12 twist after changing the barrel from a 1-9. The 1-9 would blow 'em somewhere around 300k rpm, 3700-3800 fps.

The instructions that came with mine said to keep hardness below 10bhn but that could be the BT does specifically.

I am old enough that I remember shooters who bought some of Vernon Speer's first bullets. He used fired .22LR brass for jackets. The consensus was just what you are experiencing. The thin brass jackets allowed the bullets to expand excessively if pushed too fast. Those were the days when there were still a lot of varmint hunters using .22 Hornets, .218 Bee, etc. The problem started with the high capacity cases like the Swift or the .22-250.

Brass is not the best material for bullet jackets. It's too brittle. And the .22LR jackets were thin. Later bullet makers upped the game with thicker jackets made from tougher alloys. But no one complained too much about Vernon's bullets. He made them by the million and sold them cheap. Wartime shortages had made it toughto find any reloading components. He found a niche and built a big company as a result.

Jim

It seems like a hundred years ago but I started swaging bullets in 77 grain .228 diameter for a 5.6x 61Vom Hofe Super Express. I first used 22 long rifle cases but as I got above 3,200 fps or so they started to fragment. Then I found a bunch of 22 mag cases at the range and tried them. They were just enough heavier that I could get past 3,500 and have them hold. They were accurate but very explosive. Now I use a double of swaged down 243 jackets and they go 3,700 and kill deer like lightning. Give 22 magnum rim fire cases a try. Best, Squid Boy