I messed something up...

Hey guys, first post in 5 years. I've been busy. Anyhow I'm trying to PC some NOE 311-247 in Columbia coatings super mirror black, 2 coats. I sized them through a Lee 309 die. That's where the problems began. First bullet stuck fast. I had to carefully drill it to give it room to swage in on itself. I then used a cotton swab with some RCBS case lube and lightly lubed the die. Got 80 bullets through with a few re-lubes. The handle effort on my Lyman t-mag turret press was substantial. When I pulled the collection box off the top of the press I noticed I had cause the bases to flow around the ram a bit causing 1-2 mm of flash in some cases. The powder coat stayed on. I then ran 2 uncoated bullets through and had similar results. Am I substantially over sizing? Its my first go with the lee sizer.

Alright, my NOE mold seems to be dropping them at .317, I think I've heard PC runs about .003 so that would have me trying to size a .323 to .309. I guess that makes sense. I've been wanting to PC since it came up here years ago but haven't gotten around to it. So I'm a noob. I know originally people were trying to stand them up before baking which is pretty tough with a 311-247. Good luck moving the pan. I tried the elvisammo method of SAB and just pour on screen and run at 250 for 15min. Powdercoat did what it's supposed to but I end up with every bullet stuck together and they're a b!+@# to break up. More than 10% loss. Obviously this method sucks for long bullets or I'm being dumb. I'd love suggestions for either problem. Ol reliable lube sizer is lookin pretty good about now

I'd make sure of the cast diameter- if bullets are dropping at .317 I'd call Al at NOE. Try 450 degrees for 15 minutes. I find that stuck together bullets pop apart if you start separating then when still fairly warm. A spritz of Hornaday one shot after PCing and before sizing will make a huge difference. Are you sure you need 2 coats? The only time I double coat is when I'm trying to increase diameter.
Loren

I bake 400°F for 30 minutes then dump the tray immediately into a large clean cardboard box. (If you masking tape the interior seams it holds up better, and bullets don't get stuck ).

Using clean leather gloves break up the bullet clumps as they begin to cool.

Size as soon as they are cooled enough to handle with bare hands without getting burned(5 minutes maybe) it makes it easier, reduction of force required before the lead begins to harden.

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Originally Posted by rockshooter

I'd make sure of the cast diameter- if bullets are dropping at .317 I'd call Al at NOE. Try 450 degrees for 15 minutes. I find that stuck together bullets pop apart if you start separating then when still fairly warm. A spritz of Hornaday one shot after PCing and before sizing will make a huge difference. Are you sure you need 2 coats? The only time I double coat is when I'm trying to increase diameter.
Loren

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I measured 4-5 bullets with a mitutoyo dial caliper set. All were around .317. I'll check again tonight before I have a glass of cider.

The elvisammo method of 250 was to prevent annealing the bullet and losing BHN. Which he showed worked according to his Lee hardness tester. I got good adhesion and glossy PC at 250. Do you think the higher temp will help prevent the sticking issue?

I did 2 coats cause the powder did not have full coverage. They looked pretty janky with 1 coat. Maybe try different powder?

unless you WD them there is nothing to loose with higher temp. Sizing down that larger dia with hard alloy will cause problems, use some lube when sizing or size before and after coating.

.323 to .309 is a big jump.
It'd be easier to pull a cat through an *** hole by its tail than size those in one pass.

Can you get something in between like .315 and do it in two passes?

Seems my math is off. 2 coats 2 sides
is .003 x4 + .317. So .329 is more likely, if my .317 is correct. IDK where my micrometer is so I can only use my dial calipers. I'll check again in a few min

I’d suggest sizing before coating and then see what you get.

Ok I measured 6 random uncoated bullets a bunch of times while rotating them and had swings from .315-.319. I couldn't repeat either. Most were .317. I measured the sized bullets and all surprisingly came up .309. I bought this mold prob 5 years ago and have never been able to make the bullets shoot, I wonder if this is the problem. Is it worth contacting NOE? I'm sure I'm well out of the warranty period.

That’s a lot to size down in one pass, especially if you are using hard alloy. That’s why I like the NOE sizing system with different inserts. Even with several steps, the lead has to go somewhere, either in the lube grooves or hanging over the base.

Yep, that is a LOT to try to size in one pass. I like to keep sizing to .004 at most.

I'd talk to NOE and find out what happened with your mold. .311 should cast near .311

PS please ignore the Elvis BS and cook the bullets to the mfg recommended temp and time. If you need to heat treat (and you should not with PC) then do it after PC or water quench after PC. Find a good temp chart for heat treating your alloy.

400F for at least 10 min AFTER the powder gets shiny. Ignore that clown on the net!

I have cast and coated many thousands of boolits from 223 up thru 45 cal with absolutely ZERO problems. I always use Smoke's powder. Stick with the best and forget that off-brand you mentioned. You should NEVER have to use more than ONE coat Period.

Keep trying. Any method other than ESPC has MANY variables to achieve good coats.

I've been doin' this since early 2013 and have found dozens of way to NOT get good coats!

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Originally Posted by adanymous

Ok I measured 6 random uncoated bullets a bunch of times while rotating them and had swings from .315-.319. I couldn't repeat either. Most were .317. I measured the sized bullets and all surprisingly came up .309. I bought this mold prob 5 years ago and have never been able to make the bullets shoot, I wonder if this is the problem. Is it worth contacting NOE? I'm sure I'm well out of the warranty period.

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I think you've found the problem.
Maybe...If it was me...I might send them the mold, with some bullets and a letter explaining the issue. This would present the problem in a multi-modal manner. They could read about the problem and see it with their own eyes. They might even know what caused it. It would make the issue more real to them. The mold ain't doing you no good so all you have to lose is the price of some postage.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. It would be hard for them to ignore it if they had it in their own hands.

Unless you have another die more like .315, I suggest you size before powder coating AND after powder coating.

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Originally Posted by adanymous

Is it worth contacting NOE? I'm sure I'm well out of the warranty period.

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It can't hurt.

With that mold the way it is, I don't see you getting much more out of it except big groups, and arms like Popeye the Sailor.
Other than that, I think you're kicking a dead horse.

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Originally Posted by bangerjim

400F for at least 10 min AFTER the powder gets shiny. Ignore that clown on the net!

I have cast and coated many thousands of boolits from 223 up thru 45 cal with absolutely ZERO problems. I always use Smoke's powder. Stick with the best and forget that off-brand you mentioned. You should NEVER have to use more than ONE coat Period.

Keep trying. Any method other than ESPC has MANY variables to achieve good coats.

I've been doin' this since early 2013 and have found dozens of way to NOT get good coats!

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Bangerjim is dead on. Your likely problem is not the sizing it is the PC is not properly cured! There is and has been more than enough good information on this site to produce good bullets, without following one who promotes, literally, a half baked experiment.

Powder starts to flow at approximately 150° F. but just because it is shiney does not mean it is cured.