I need to step back a second...plated/J word time

Okay I have learned a TON by letting my reach exceed my grasp a little as far as making accurate 45 ACP ammo with cast boolits.

I have not yet actually made accurate ammo, but now I know alot more than I did a few weeks ago about what the ingredients are.

Before I proceed with my next batch of 100 or so, I want to step back a second and make would should, in theory, definitely be reasonably accurate ammo, using factory made boolits.

I could use some advice on what I could do to make this batch as accurate as possible. b

Heres the ingredients I have:

-1911 5" barrel
-bullseye, HP38, IMR RED, CFE pistol
-large pistol primers
-small pistol primers (hey maybe I should use the federal spp brass since its probably once fired?)
-load master press
-APP press
-NOE .451 and .452 expander plugs
-random range pickup brass
-ss pins/citric acid with tumbler
-separate taper crimp and seating dies
-Berrys 230gn FMJ plated bullets
-I spent quite awhile cleaning my barrel of all leading I could. I think its as clean as could possibly be. I dont see anymore lead.

Stepping back now, what should I do to make the most accurate ammo I can with the above?

-Target COAL? Should I go as long as possible that will still headspace on the case mouth?
-Taper crimp just to remove flare?
-Best powder and load with what I got?
-Which brass type and headstamp should I use?
-Should I go as far as inspecting the boolits or is that literally pointless?
-What about measuring the brass?

I know good handgun ammo is routinely made with factory bullets without paying so much attention to these things, but I am using this as an opportunity to improve my art. I am well past the point of getting anything out of "just shooting it" since I do that almost every day anyway. I want to get better at making ammo.

Target COAL: You’re limited by what will fit in the magazine. If it fits in the mag and fully drops in on a plunk test you’re good.
Taper crimp to .471” max. I go to .469” with no problems.
Best powder: Bullseye isn’t my favorite in the huge .45 ACP case because a double charge might not be noticed. Use something you have that fills the case better.
Best brass: Brass in this chambering lasts a very long time. I have lots that have been reloaded so many times the headstamps are unreadable. I mix brass freely. Since you’re taper crimping slight variations in case length have little impact on the crimp. I’ve never seen a .45 ACP cartridge that was too long. I’ve never trimmed one.
Inspecting bullets: Don’t over think it. Berry’s makes a good product. If you see a bad booger on one don’t use it but their manufacturing process eliminates most problems.
Measuring the brass: Go ahead. You’ll soon confirm my findings.
Definitely seat and crimp separately. It’s easier and consistent.
Use small or large primer cases based on your primer inventory. Bullseye shooters like SPP because they have less explosive and displace the boolits less than large ones before the powder develops pressure. It seems to add accuracy.
Clean your brass before reloading to prevent damaging your dies but decapping and then SS pin tumbling is a waste of time for pistol cartridges.
Pull a boolit after seating and crimping to determine which expander you should use.

Your ultimate accuracy will be determined by your trigger job, trigger control and rounds down range. Perfect practice makes perfect. For the ultimate analysis of the accuracy of your load maybe you can find someone that has a Ransom Rest.

Berry’s are soft lead with about .008” of copper plating IIRC. Consider them as cast boolits.

David has given some good advice.

Each & every gun is a different machine. Your gun will be the machine to tell you which ammo is IT'S most accurate. And accuracy is a subjective thing.
A master class target shooter vs, a long range handgun hunter, vs a person who occasionally plinks at a gun range at 7 yds, vs a USPSA shooter looking for accuracy & a mild recoil at the same time, vs,,,, etc.
Then there is the firearm.

Start with a baseline of known accuracy.
Buy 2-3 types of QUALITY factory ammo, and shoot it in YOUR gun to establish it's baseline accuracy.
Next,, you can work on what you have,, following the info above from David,, to assemble several different loads and then test in your gun.
Only then,,, will you find what MAY work.
If you do not get an accurate load after that,, change only ONE component at a time,, say in this case,, looking at what you have,, change the powder type. Start over with several loads,,, and see if you can find what will be accurate.

Will it be easy? Maybe,,, but most likely,, not easy. But it will take time,, as there is no magic automatic easy method.

Do you think it cost effective to load in batches of 100? For testing purposes, you might consider loading in groups of 10 as you explore the various powder charges looking for the best grouping. For load development, I would select matching head stamps just to be consistent. After you get your most accurate load, then use random cases to see if it make that much difference. Shoot for groups, not for score. Mark and save your targets. And shoot with a proven rest to reduce shooter error. Shoot at a distance that you can see changes in your loads. This may require a larger target or backing in case you get off the paper. Shoot when you feel good, it is not a chore, but you should relax and focus. Good luck.

Don’t get wound up overthinking this. Just get started. The 45acp is easy to work with.

You didn't state what loading manual you have. With many powders you need data to know how much to load. I shoot a 200gr cast boolit and have used a little as 4.5gr and as much as 6.2. You need to know the loads for each powder. If you don't have it the Lyman 50th is a good one to start with.

What do you mean by accurate ammo. I believe there is as much about the gun as there is in the ammo especially with a 45acp pistol. If you are expecting 1" at 50 yds you better start with a very good pistol. If you read the gun rags you will see a lot of different 45acp pistols that do good to shoot 2" groups at 25 yds with factory ammo.

My opinions,
Go with max spec’d COAL. Load a few dummy rounds and confirm they will hand cycle through your 1911. I’ve found the closer the projectile is to the rifling, the better.
A 45 is a big case. Even large grain powders don’t fill it well. I settled on TiteGroup. A really compact powder but it burns clean at less than hot loads & is good in a lot of pistol cartridges.
If you have the luxury, use brass of a single headstamp to reduce capacity and length variations.
I don’t obsess about crimp. If I can’t twist a loaded bullet with slip-grip pliers I am happy.
Cleaning brass isn’t necessary, I clean mine to to spare my dies and firearms unnecessary exposure to dirt & grit.
Case length, especially shorts, can effect crimp. Short cases may not travel far enough into the crimp die to fully crimp. Also because 45 cases headspace on case mouth, short cases can cause light strikes. In a half dozen 1911’s I’ve very very seldom had light strikes so I don’t worry about case length much.
Berrys & Xtreme are quality bullets. In pistol calibers they’re as accurate as any made.
In my experience hot or near max loads are less accurate. You need enough of a powder charge, a reasonably firm crimp and a snug bullet to barrel fit to cleanly burn the powder and cycle the pistol. I don’t often see bullseye shooters running hot loads.
With 4.2 grains Titegroup under a 230 CPRN all my 1911’s shoot 1” offhand groups at 25 feet when I do my part. I’m not good enough to expect better.

I used to have a 1911-type that threw the first shot out of the group for some mysterious reason, no matter how hard I released the slide to strip the cartridge from the magazine, or otherwise manipulated it. I've read elsewhere that some guns just do that. After that, I started firing the first round out of a magazine into the berm before shooting for a group.

okay just got back from my berrys plated ammo test

on a sandbag on a table
berrys 230gn seated to 1.260 +.004/-.001", over 4.5gn of bullseye in AMMO INC headstamp brass
all ammo was plunk tested and confirmed to headspace on case mouth and rotate freely

my best group was 10 shots within 5" at 15yd

this is not significantly different than my 15yd group with my cast lead ammo

I think maybe, it really is mostly me thats opening up the group.

How can I prove this without a ransom rest? I am a machinist and could make something. Anything quick and dirty so I dont spend a week designing and machining something more complicated than I need? I just want to prove how much I am contributing to the error versus the pistol/ammo. If I find I out its mostly me (which it probably is) I will glad move on to making 1000 rounds and just shooting it all to improve my shooting

in other words...do I now have a good excuse to get a laser sight for the pistol so I can mount it in a rest and then use binocs to aim it for the test shots

If you have someone you know that is a very good shot, have them try the gun and loads. It would take a very poor 45 and ammo to shoot a 5" group at 15yds.

Another thing you might try is to load a couple of dummy rounds and put one or two in a mag mixed in with loaded rounds and shoot a mag. This should tell you if you are the problem. When you get to a dummy round and the sights don't remain on target while pulling the trigger, you found the problem.

After you fire the thousands rounds , you may notice your firearm and yourself will shoot better . This is coming from a member that is not a very good shot to say the least .

I would second have someone else shoot the gun.

Second I would consider dropping weight of bullet and charge. You want to tame that beast.

If you can't, consider dropping down to a .38 special or smaller.
Beg, borrow or steal a .22lr, shoot it at 15 yards. Group size?

As I aged suddenly the .32sw long with its 2 grains of Red Dot and a 90 gr cast bullet started becoming attractive.
Then I discovered it could tighten up the groups considerably on a good day.
Same is true for .22lr.

Throw preconceptions out the window.

Confidence is king. And if your afraid of that .45acp it will mess with you.

If you have one of the soft front rifle rests, place it on the bench and put the barrel on it. Lean slightly forward to add a little weight. You can be very steady once you get used to it.

4.5 BE is pretty mild, even for me. I assume the pistol cycles properly. From a rest it should group pretty good. Out of curiosity is it a new 1911? I agree you should have a known good shooter try it. How close to center was your first shot?

Years ago I bought a series 70 Colt that I couldn't hit anything with. I was convinced there was something wrong with the gun. A guy was watching me and asked if he could try it. He shot a magazine into about a 2" group, handed it back and said "there is nothing wrong with your gun".
I've shot many other guns that I can shoot well, but for some reason the 1911 was never one of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guy_with_boolits

okay just got back from my berrys plated ammo test

on a sandbag on a table
berrys 230gn seated to 1.260 +.004/-.001", over 4.5gn of bullseye in AMMO INC headstamp brass
all ammo was plunk tested and confirmed to headspace on case mouth and rotate freely

my best group was 10 shots within 5" at 15yd

this is not significantly different than my 15yd group with my cast lead ammo

I think maybe, it really is mostly me thats opening up the group.

How can I prove this without a ransom rest? I am a machinist and could make something. Anything quick and dirty so I dont spend a week designing and machining something more complicated than I need? I just want to prove how much I am contributing to the error versus the pistol/ammo. If I find I out its mostly me (which it probably is) I will glad move on to making 1000 rounds and just shooting it all to improve my shooting

in other words...do I now have a good excuse to get a laser sight for the pistol so I can mount it in a rest and then use binocs to aim it for the test shots

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I would at 10-12-or 15 yds put a blank target up or a white sheet of paper
now put a 1in square or round target on that white sheet of paper

Shoot your group and only aim at that square ........ you need something to focus on and it too big your groups go bigger

with a cz75 at 9 yds I have put 4 out of 5 on that target...... when I was younger

In 1989 for my 45th birthday I bought myself a Colt 45acp.I found out real quick that I could not hit the broad side of a barn if I was leaning against it.I kept count of every round that was shot in that 1911.Everybody that shot it at the range could pretty much drive nails with it except me.Took me over 5000 rounds fired through it before I finally discovered what I was doing wrong.
I have been a reloader since the early 1960's and always been very careful with my empty brass.One day at the range someone ask me why I always looked to my right when I fired a shot from my 1911.That was what I was doing wrong I was watching where my empty brass was landing so I would not loose it.It only took 5000 rounds to find out what I was doing wrong.
Like others have said have some one else fire your gun to make sure it is not the gun and then have them watch you shoot it to see if you are doing something like watching where your fired brass is going to land.
I think that your load of 4.5grs. of Bullseye is a good load. It works good for me using a cast Lyman 452460 and mixed brass. I put a Burris fast fire III on my Colt and that load from a rest will shoot 3 inches or so at 50 yards if I don't watch my fired brass as it comes out of the gun.
Good luck in finding your problem.

When I first got my 1911 I had a dozen or so rounds for it. Went out to a gravelpit and set up a couple of pop cans at about 8 or ten yds and fired away. I picked up my empties and the completely untouched pop cans. A couple of years later I could hit a dime at 50' about half the time. Two or three years of NRA 50' indoor target shooting once a week and some advice from a very good shooter and a book or two made a lot of difference. One little tip, use ear plugs and ear muffs together. The big boom right in front of your face takes quite a bit of getting used to. Well one more and this is a tough one.Force yourself to keep both eyes open through the gun firing. When you can see your bullets going down range you have mastered flinching. Flinching,preingnition push, jerking the trigger or what ever you want to call it is the hardest part of shooting a handgun there is to overcome. Firing with a couple of dummies in the mag will show you the problem. Load a few rounds without powder or primers and mix them in with a few rounds. Then load the mag without looking at it. Make every shot as if your life depended on it. Do not just blast rounds down range, concentrate on every shot. Perfect practice makes
perfect. Good luck, you can do this.