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Does anyone here use the Chase paper patching method for either muzzle loader or BPCR? If so, I would be really grateful if you could post some pictures. I've read a few forum posts about it and experimented it myself but I can't tell if it's coming out right. I can never get the paper to stay tight around the bullet.
Isn’t that style of patch only used in muzzleloaders?
It indeed it is, but I think it was developed for cartridges by Mr.Chase first. I haven't seen as many resources on it as much as the double wrap method. Maybe it's because it's simple enough not to need explanation and I'm too dense... Either way, I would love to see some pictures of what to aim for. When I try to wrap it, it always comes loose at the tip end and trying to size the patched bullet messes it up.
You don't size the patched bullet. The patch is supposed to be loose, it's only one wrap around with the bottom tucked under. I use it in muzzle loaders with great success, it does take a bit of dexterity to load but if you do it right the results are very good. I use freezer paper to patch with, slick side out. Put a card wad in first (well, second after the powder) and use that to hold the patch end together as you seat the bullet. If you don't use the wad you're guaranteed to push the bullet through the patch and it will fall all the way to the bottom.
On fixed ammunition, it is best used in a breech seated setup. you use your seater which is a drilled out cartridge case to push the bullet up into the throat. Then place a charged case behind it with a wad on top of the powder. The rifle should be made so the wad is sitting against the base of the bullet when the case is fully chambered.
The main advantage that I see to the Chase patch compared to a double wrapped parallelogram is you can get accuracy at lower load levels. The double wrap has to be loaded hot enough to upset the bullet sufficiently to cut the patch into ribbons, all the way through. The Chase patch is going to fall off no matter what, and does not need to be cut. So much lighter powder charges will produce good accuracy.
There was a well-written article about the Chase patch in the last winter edition of Black Powder Cartridge News #108. Excellent research by the author.
The Chase Patch is strictly a breech-seating benchrest proposition. The rectangular patch wraps once around the boolit and butts square against itself. There is no overlap, nor is there any folding over the boolit base.
You curl the patch into your breech seater tool, put the boolit into the paper cylinder, and push it forward into the leade of your chamber, following it with your single cartridge case that you deprime, recap and charge over and over.
As old D. L. F. Chase hizownself put it in Shooting and Fishing, V 5, No. 5, p. 91:
“ A short experience with the new system has shown that a word of instruction is needed on one or two practical points. Probably most riflemen have been in the habit of tipping the muzzle of the gun more or less downward when seating the bullet. This should not be done when using the new patches, as it gives the bullet a chance to slide slightly forward partly out of the paper before the plunger is brought to bear upon it. The muzzle should be held rather above the level rather than below it while inserting the seater and pressing the bullet home. For the same reason, when the seater is inserted in the breech, it must not be pushed up to the shoulder with a jerk, as that may jump the bullet ahead partly out of the patch, with the result being, perhaps, a wild shot. But if the gun is held with the muzzle a little elevated, and the seater inserted rather slowly, the bullet and patch will keep exactly together every time. It must not be inferred that there is anything difficult or fussy about the process, as quite the reverse is true.
Then, as to the seater itself, the ordinary tools in the market are not likely to be satisfactory, not being designed for this particular purpose. The bore of the shell should be smooth and straight (not growing larger inward), and just large enough to allow the bullet to be slipped inside the previously-inserted patch without crumpling the latter down. The plunger must be snugly fitted, and have a sharp, square corner so that the paper cannot slip by nor get nipped. Also, the plunger, when pushed clear forward, should not project beyond the shell (except as described below), because, being the full size of the patched bullet, it cannot follow the latter into the barrel. In my own practice thus far, when desiring to seat the bullet ahead of the shell, I have used an extra plug to push them a little farther than the first tool leaves them; but I propose to put a projection, or boss, on the end of the plunger small enough to follow the bullet into the barrel, and thus carry the said bullet ahead of the shell. Of course, in that case, the paper will project beyond the base of the bullet, and the patches will have to be cut enough wider to make up for the projecting part.
It may be proper to stare here that I have no patent, and am not ‘on the make’ in this particular matter, but shall feel a little satisfaction in having the credit of making a slight useful contribution to ‘ye gentle art’ of rifle shooting.
Boston, Nov. 19. D. L. F. CHASE”
thanks everyone for the info. Still hoping to see an example in picture form from those who use this method.
I know this method works well for LRML as well. I'm interested in using it for my Pedersoli Gibbs and Stevens 44 1/2.
perhaps this is a topic for another forum post, but would breech seating require special kind of throat? If there's a good and easy to understand post somewhere, I'd like to study up!
I have not done this, yet I'm going to claim that it won't do anything that a 2-wrap patch cannot do at least as well and certainly much more easily.
When your bullet emerges from your muzzle, the patch - whatever type it was going into the gun, should no be sliced into spiraling longitudinal strips. Does it really matter if there is one strip per groove or two? I cannot see the difference, and I bet your target cannot either (if rigorously tested).
Back in the '90s, when everyone was talking about paper patches but almost no one was doing it, there was a frequent claim that cross patches or Chase patches would "release" from the bullet better and thus be more accurate. I am going to say Baloney! Yet, I cannot claim to have tried it.
I would like to set that article, Bob. Maybe you could bring it along this weekend...???
Is it embedded in the article on reloading the 45-90?Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Win
I never tried the Chase patch but I have used a cross patch in a cartridge rifle.
It's a pain loading a cross patch with a suppository type rifle. I used a case loaded with lead cut flush with the case mouth and chambered it then pushed the patched bullet down from the muzzle like a front stuffer till it made contact with the shell in the chamber then extracting the lead filled shell and loaded a charged case with the wad flush with the case mouth, like breach seating it.
I really cant say I saw an increase with accuracy thinking the patch would release faster than a double wrapped PP bullet.
I could use my breach seater using a Chase patch, the bullet is held in the case as deep as I want to hold the patch but I think fumbling with a single wrapped patch even with the breach seater is not worth the effort.
Tried to share this but anyway it is worth a watch. Google search "mystery of slug guns NMLRA"
interesting vid with cross patching.Quote:
Originally Posted by kokomokid
Never seen a ML with a gigantic barrel like that!
Do a search for black powder cartridge news, issue 108. There is a copy on eBay right now for $8 and $2 shipping with a buy now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi2winky
I have used he chase system on my three fast twist muzzleloader. 2 are 1/32 twist and one is 1/28. I use a 420 grain bullet that is .491 in diam. to use is very simple and easy, put 80 grain of powder in the barrel. put a 60 thousands thick hard fiber or poly wad just inside the muzzle no more than a 1/4 inch down the muzzle. Then wrap the bullet with a rectangular piece of paper one wrap. it has to be long enough so it hangs over the bottom end a little. then fold over onto the base. Place into the muzzle on top of the wad. Then with the ranrod place on powder. the wad will keep the paper on the bullet. ive dont the double wrap system with 50 cal but once and a while the paper will stick. it never will stick with the single wrap system. I use both 18 pound paper and 20 pound paper as some bores are slightly larger than others. yes the chase system can be used with out a starter. simple as i have stated and never any fliers. I made up my mind to research it and did and then modified it to a common fast twist muzzleloader. A retired Air Force officer out of Denver does it with a fast twist 54 incline. Just made a bullet for it 9 thousands smaller than to of lands size. Works every time for him also. More shoul use this easy method of shooting.