My 410 bore brass case loads so far

I have been playing with loading shotshells for 410 using 444 marlin brass, and this is how they look....

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I discovered that my 7.62X54 sizing die will slightly size down the fired brass and can be used to put a nice rolled crimp on the case to hold the overshot card in place. This is loaded with a large rifle primer and wc820 powder and there is a 410 plastic wad holding about 1/2 oz of shot. The over shot card is a 7/16" disc cut from a translucent plastic lid that I had laying around.

Now you've got me thinking I can make some of those. :) I've got some 444 brass that I found at the range and some shot, Hmmm, I may have to look into this and do some reading. It might be fun.

What do you use to build your shot column? I made a bunch of brass shot shells from 303 British brass, just glued the over shot wads in place. I am concerned that the crimping may shorten brass life.

I am using a Champion 410SC wad over the powder. Attachment 262642

I plan to anneal the brass every few times. This will probably not be a high volume proposition. I think It might have been cheaper just to get a couple of boxes of Factory loads but then I would not have learned anything.

I make mine from fire-formed .303 British cases too, but I am loading them in an Ishapore .410 smooth-bore single shot musket that was designed to use straight .303 cases. I load with a single .410" round ball for now, but will play with buckshot loads using .250" buckshot and some shot loads using #7 1/2s. For now I'm using .410" card and fibre wads over a 16.0 grain charge of old Hercules 2400.

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This is a very interesting thread with some great ideas.

So how long are 303 brit cases? I have not seen any in a while around here.

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Originally Posted by frkelly74

So how long are 303 brit cases? I have not seen any in a while around here.

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2.222" nominal length ...

if you take a FIRED 45 long colt case it will cut a nice over shot that fits tight out of a -cottage cheese / tub butter lid --- use a 45 seater no crimp
if you go to BPI they have a 410 wad called { stump} you can get 3/4oz in a 444 using the 410 powder

Interesting!! I did try some Herco and found it very bulky , enough so that it crowded out some of the shot . I hesitate to buy any more powder right now , I have quite a bit to use up right now. The WC 820 is pulled down from 30 carbine surplus and the data is derived from h110 less 13% according to the can I got from Pat McDonald quite a long time ago. I have a 7/16 circle cutter and can make those over shot cards very quickly, If I put them in just right they make a nice tight dome over the shot. I will check on the stumps if/when I run out of the Champion wads.

Great thread! Here is what I've been doing:

.410 All-Brass Shells

From the discussion here I thought a how-to-do-it on loading all-brass .410s would be helpful. I've successfully done this, fire-forming from .303 British, as well as 9.3x74R German and more recently using Magtech .410 all-brass shells and Starline 5 in 1 blank cases from Midway. Load data, wads and assembly/crimping technique are different from using modern plastic shells and wads.

In break-open shotguns, all-brass cases are easily made by fireforming from .303 British brass, which is cheap and plentiful. If you have one of the pre-WW1 .44 Extra Long shotguns with the 2-inch chamber, the Starline 5 in 1 blank cases work well with 5 grains of Bullseye and these will work also in .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .38-40, .44-40 and .45 Colt revolvers, hence the "5 in 1".

You can use .444 Marlin brass IF your shotgun extractor will engage the smaller diameter rim to pull them out. To fire-form .303s or 9.3x74R out cylindrical charge the case with ten grains of any fast-burning pistol or shotshell powder. The powder type isn't important, almost anything you have around the shop will work. Push a cotton ball down onto the powder, then fill the case up to the shoulder with Cream of Wheat, then press a Gulf wax plug into the case mouth. Fire-form the case by pointing the muzzle straight up. The resulting case will be 2.25" in length in .303 or 2-3/4" in 9.3x74R. Cases should fire-form perfectly without splits on the first pop if they are mouth annealed first. Cases which have been reloaded as rifle rounds several times absolutely must be annealed first! A quickie on how to anneal rifle brass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVeRDAsrCfM

With Magtech .410 brass use, 15.4 grains of #2400 powder, metered from the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure, using the rotor #19. Place a Buffalo Arms .44 vegetable fiber 1/16” card over the powder, then two Buffalo Arms .44-45 wool felt cushion wads, LIGHTLY oiling the top cushion wad only, by applying TWO DROPS of 30 weight motor oil with an eye dropper, squishing the wad between the fingers a few times to work it in, then wrapping the wad in a square of TP, squeezing it again between the thumb and forefinger to wick out and absorb the excess oil.

A fired .45 Schofield case holds half an ounce of lead shot with wire handle soldered on to make a dip measure. For birdshot fill the case to within 1/8” of the case mouth, insert another 1/16” card and glue in place with Elmers. You can get a bit more shot in using the old fashioned card and fiber wad column, but my cylinder-bore .410 throws better patterns using the Federal No. 410SC (1/2 oz. Skeet) shot cup over the card, pouring the shot into that and closing the shell by crimping (or gluing with Elmer's) a .36 cal. card inside the top of the shot cup, as shown in the photo below.

If you have a Lee 7.62x54R Russian seater die, you can make a more finished-looking crimp, by inserting a blank Lyman 450 sizer top punch into the seater die plug, adjusting the seating stem to position the top card, just below the die shoulder, then using a .44 cal. card to fit the all-brass shell, or .36 cal. to fit inside the Federal shotcup if using that wad. You want to hold the overshot card slightly below the case mouth, as you bump the case mouth against the die shoulder to form a nicely rounded, professional-looking crimp. See the photo.

If loading buckshot, insert a card firmly over the powder, as you did before. A Federal No.410SC plastic shotcup is used as the buckshot container and the fiber filler wads are not needed. The plastic shot cup MUST NOT be used in all-brass cases without an over-powder card, because its base diameter is too small to seal the case interior. Omitting the card results in powder leaking past the wad, causing “bloopers.” After firmly seating a Federal No.410SC plastic wad, drop four 00 buck into the shot cup, then add one cast .390” round ball cast of SOFT lead on top of the stack. Adjust the seater so that the top ball is crimped positively into the end of the shell. Alternately you can load FOUR pellets of 000 buck in the shot cup, or the same number of .390" cast round balls in the brass shell with fiber wad column and no plastic shot cup.

Four .39" cast round balls total 350 grains or 0.8 of an ounce. Each pellet at 25 yards has 150 ft.-lbs. of energy, about the same as a .380 ACP pocket pistol at the same distance. If the .390 balls will fall of their own weight through your gun's choke and they pattern well, the improvement in energy is dramatic! I use the same 15.4 grain charge of #2400 in my gun, but it is, admittedly a "hot" load. I suggest reducing the charge to 12 grains, using Little Dandy Rotor #15 and work up cautiously.

The 1951 Ideal Handbook provided data with #2400 powder for .410 shells in paper cases with conventional wad columns. It suggests thickness of the filler wad(s) should be not less than 1/2 bore diameter and not more than bore diameter. Minimum filler wad thickness in the 410 bore is 0.205 inches.

A .444 Marlin sizer die with Lee No.5 shell holder can be used to resize fire-formed .303 or 9.3x74R brass cases if necessary. Prime cases with large pistol primers. The RCBS Little Dandy Rotors #19 measures the appropriate charge of Alliant #2400. Thumb over powder card into case mouth, and slide firmly onto the powder using a dowel. Similarly seat the filler wad(s), or plastic shotcup, if used. Add shot and top card or buckshot. Glue top card or crimp, if a suitable die is available. That’s all there is to it.

Two 2-1/2 inch all-brass .410s, one with birdshot and plastic shot sleeve, another with buckshot, at right is a .44-40 Long Shot cartridge asasembled in a 5 in 1 blank case, and a 2-3/4" in 9.3x74R brass shown for size comparison.

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I just fire formed 60 303 cases and got 26 that didn't split when fired. Yes they were annealed first and had only been fired once. 444Marlin cases are very close to the same length as the 303 cases and don't need to be fire formed. I use a 44cal gas check upside down over powder then a cereal box wad, 3/4oz of #9 shot and another cereal box wad glued in with silicone.

Strange ... I've fire-formed over 100 rounds of annealed .303 British into .410 Musket without losing a single case to splits ... (knock on wood) ...

I have never had a .303 British split when fire forming.

These were military berdan cases that I had converted to shotgun primers and lightly trimmed the back of the case to fit my Savage 24. I'm a bit bummed because of the heavy loss while fire forming. I have another 50 ready fire form but this time i think I will anneal till they glow in the light and see if this helps. If not then I will go the easy way and just use 444 cases. For those that have never had one split, it's easy to do and I'd be glad to show you how. :(

Next time make sure that your fire-forming loads are stiff enough to blow the cases out completely. I've found that light loads will often result in split cases (in nearly any calibre), but good stiff loads that really force the case out to the desired dimensions fire-form without issues.

I've been using about 8.5 grains of Nitro Trap 100 (since I have a fair bit of it on hand) with 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue, then bulk yellow cornmeal up to the case mouth, topped off with another 1/4 sheet of toilet tissue. They snap right out in my Lee Enfield .410 Musket ...

When I anneal I get the case neck plus a little to a dull red. They are then dropped directly into a bucket of water.

Mine either fire formed nicely or split about half way down the case. I'll try some Nitro 100 say 10 grs and tp and cow. We will see. I should only have to fire 2 or 3 to see if it will work.