Would you use something like a cast bullet or would you go something more like a Hornady xtp 180 grain bullet?
It will be shot out of a stock 10mm Glock Barrel.
Would you use something like a cast bullet or would you go something more like a Hornady xtp 180 grain bullet?
It will be shot out of a stock 10mm Glock Barrel.
JMHO, but myself - if deer hunting in bear country, I'd probably have an XTP in the pipe with another behind it for a follow-up shot, then the rest of the mag full of hardcasts, loaded as hot as possible.
HP's are fine for deer, but for bear protection I'd want the hardest, heaviest, deepest penetrating, bone smashing-est I could get, preferably gas checked with the flattest nose possible that fed reliably.
Again, JMHO, and worth what ya paid for it.....
The deer requirement is easy. Contrary to popular myth, deer have not become bullet proof. When hunting with a handgun, the skill of the shooter is usually the limiting factor. A 180 grain bullet with a HP or soft flat point travelling in excess of 1250 fps will get the job done if you can put it in the right place. I would pick a bullet profile that feeds reliably in your pistol and load for the combination of max accuracy and safe pressure. DONE
Now the black bear requirement adds to this and I agree with rondog. Black bear are rarely dangerous unless you encounter a mother protecting cubs. However, if you shoot one and don't drop it - Now you do have a problem. Black bears tend to have a lot of fat and muscle that limits bullet penetration. Getting a handgun bullet that will reliably penetrate deep enough to reach something vital is more difficult. I think rohdog's formula is spot on.
I really really like a 200 WFN hard cast, pushed hard 1200 fps more if safe.
I have t found a mold I like enough... Yet. I do have a NOE 181 with pins and really like the way the cup point version shoots. I was just shooting last night. With a stiff load of Blue Dot it prints uNder 4” @ 50 for me and clocks almost 1350 from my 6” KKM barrel. That about 750 fpe. Heavy 10mm load for sure.
My “ deer” load this year is a GT Bullets 220g HP on top of Blue Dot @ 1150 fps. We have tested this bullet at this relatively soft 10-12 BHN and its a good reliable expander, expanding right to its HP base and giving near 3/4” dia and 85/90% retention. My glocks feed these WFN bullets just fine @.401. My Glock barrel will shoot them @ .402 but not my KKM with its tighter chamber.
good luck,
CW
Attachment 251067
Forgot the pic!
Bottom bullet is a 45Colt W/LBT WFN
CW
I'm not going to start a caliber or gun war here, but I'd have to ask you a couple of questions regarding your equipment, ability, and self-discipline. I've shot a LOT of deer with handguns....and I mean a LOT. I've owned Glocks and think they're a good gun for several things. I'm not sure deer hunting is one of them. Petrol & Powder made an excellent comment about being able to put the bullet in the right place. I think the caliber choice is OK, but shooting a double action only handgun adds a whole new dimension to the choice of gun for deer hunting. How accurate are you with this gun at the distances you plan on using it for deer hunting? Very, very few shooters can shoot a Glock well enough to make it a practical deer hunting handgun. It really limits the range you can use it at. Do you have the discipline to pass on a shot that's beyond your accuracy limit for hunting? I think your choice of gun for general "woods walking" is fine, but I would question using it in place of a good revolver or single shot handgun for deer hunting. As good as you might think you are with it, the fact is that no one uses a gun like that for shooting accurately at any type of distance beyond very close yardages. Just something to think about.
Speaking for myself, Twenty five yards/ 220 HP @ 1150
Attachment 251072
50 yards, shooting my THREE different loads. Top center L is 220g. Top center is my 200 WFN @ 1200 fps and low shot is my 170 Cup point at 1350 fps. ALL @ 50 yards off hand.
Attachment 251073
As always its WHERE more than with what. Along with that its more the shootER than the gun.
CW
And you do know your limits. That's pretty much the key to hunting deer with a handgun. There are very, very few shooters who can do this with a handgun. It really requires a lot of dedication to be able to get to this point. Every prospective handgun hunter needs to run a self check to see where they are at. And then operate within their zone of ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwlongshot
AMEN!
35year Bullseye shooter here. I shoot allot, multiple times a week PLUS competitions weekly.
50 yards is my limit for most but more because of the power lass because of accuracy. ‘Tenders can push that to 100yards in some Calibers. Top 10mm loads dont come close to 1000 fpe. Bullet placement and knowing anatomy is tantamount.
CW
I tend to agree with the above about a 200+ grain cast hard. I haven't loaded up any of those in quite a while but if memory serves correctly it was with a stiff dose of 800x. The next time I experiment with heavy 10 mm stuff I'll probably start testing with ramshot silhouette. About anything should meter better than 800x.
Ebner
The 10mm Auto pistol is the ballistic equivalent of a .38-40 rifle firing black powder. I would load as blunt a bullet as will feed, and at 1200 fps the alloy doesn't need to be hard. Elmer Keith thought 1:16 tin-lead was fine in auto pistols and for his heavy .44 Special loads. For revolver use there is no need to go harder than 1:20.
While Accurate 40-182H is intended for revolver use, it feeds in auto pistols and has a large meplat for good "crush". If you have a 10mm revolver you can load heavier bullets, being limited only by cylinder length. The 252 grain Accurate bullet at around 1000 fps from a 5-inch Ruger is a proven killer and deep penetrator.
Attachment 251203Attachment 251205Attachment 251206
I like a 200 gr XTP for deer. I've gotten complete pass-through on whitetails and 28" of penetration in a frontal shot on a muley. I have also used it on a couple black bear, successfully, and several California pigs. The XTP is a very tough bullet that works well on game.Quote:
Originally Posted by huntersdog
One word of advice about handgun bears-
Place your shot well to anchor the bear. Poorly placed bullets will usually mean a tough tracking job on an animal that doesn't leave a very good blood trail. But again, the bullet is good for the job. I run 200 gr bullets- cast or jacketed- at 1200 to 1250 fps and I wait until I have a shoulder shot.
Buffalo Bore. I would use whatever they load for your cartridge when hunting black bear. If the deer in your area are large then same load for deer. If smaller then I'd be tempted to use Hornady Critical Duty ammo.
The Lyman 043 got it done for decades with the 38-40. As Outpost 75 said, same ballistics in an auto loader.
I like the looks of that Accurate 182H.
I wish Sierra would make the 180 V-Crown available to reloaders. It’s a solid performer in the Sig Elite ammo.
I've been shooting the Accurate 40-180H (but made without the lube grove because I PC) in my GP100 (as 10mm) and it shoots/loads nicely and puts a big bang on steel targets and a nice hole in paper. These actually come out to about 188 gr because there is no lube grove.
However, I tried shooting the same boolit in a Glock 35 (as 40 S/W) and it did not feed well.
In the Glock, I shoot a NOE HTC402-188-WFN with the cup point and it feeds flawlessly (40 S/W). I cast these with the cup point and they come out to around 178 grn with my alloy.
The nice thing about hunting is you can pick your shot.Quote:
Originally Posted by NSB
I have taken a lot of game with pocket pistols and I am not a particularly good shot . With any rig no matter how good we are we should choose our game shots to fit our skill and equipment limitations , if we can't do that we should not be hunting .
To answer the OP,,, a good quality, hard cast, wide meplat bullet,, with a minimum weight of 180 running at least 1100 fps or more can be used effectively on a calm bear when PLACED properly. If HUNTING,, and not trying to fend off an angry bear,, it will work, if the shooter does his/her part.
In archery,, hunters learn the limits of themselves AND their equipment. They get closer or pass on shots. Crossbow shooters are able to get a little more distance effectively, and that allows more opportunities.
Handgun hunters,, the field is wide open.
A lot more depends upon the shooter,,, and their abilities with their chosen caliber & firearm. Combine that with bullet selection and the ability to pass on a shot they feel may be "iffy!" Again, like a bow hunter,, you have to limit yourself. But,,,a lot of folks handgun hunt,, and at ranges that many rifle shooters feel uncomfortable, or at least think it too far. Look at silhouette shooters,, out to 200 meters on a steel ram, that must fall over (energy delivered,) to score.
It's just that handgunning REQUIRES more practice, and is less forgiving at distance than a rifle. Many handgunners feel that 100 yds is the minimum they need to feel comfortable for hunting. And,, if you doubt it's very common,, just do a little web surfing,, and you will find a lot more folks handgun hunting than you'd realize. AND they use open sights, at ranges out to 100 yds & beyond.
I've been handgun hunting for decades,, and bagged many, many animals with one. I recently went to Colorado for an elk hunt & I was the only handgunner in the group. None of us ever got a chance at elk,, (weather prevented them from coming to our area,) but a few guys thought I was crazy. But I spent months practicing,, and fired about 3000 rounds in practice for that ONE chance. And I have taken an elk before with a handgun. That one was at 156 yds, with a 25-30 degree uphill angle. One shot, DRT. That handgun was scoped though.
A bear is a different animal than a deer when it comes to requirements for an ethical clean kill. Deeper penetration, the ability to smash bone, fat, hide & muscle is required for bear. But in my opinion, the ability to PASS on a potential shot when you are not sure you can make it is a requirement that must be your first decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by contender1
And THIS is our #1 rule of hunting ethics regardless of whether it's rifle, handgun, strings and pointed sticks or anything else.