"Powder" leading?

At the range today I was freeing up some brass for some new loads. I shot 100 rounds of .44 mag that were 265gr RD PB bullets loaded about 1400 fps both PCed and lubed with Ben's red as well as the lee 310 GC bullets lubed the same.

When I got home and started cleaning my SBH I noticed a smidge of leading just in front of my forcing cone which is normal for me (literally 2 spots about the size of a pencil lead) I also noticed streaks in the last inch or so of my barrel, this is new to me.

I dipped my brush in my #9 and ran it down the bore. After only a few strokes I was baffled to see these streaks comming out with nearly no effort and in the form of "dust" in the #9 comming out of the barrel.

When I ran my patch down it came out looking like the rag when you wipe the dipstick off after checking the fluid on a bad transmission (black with glitter) A little more effort and I got the leading out at the in front of the cone.

All and all less then 15 minutes and I was done but what was this "powdered lead" caused from?

Just a wild guess- but the powder flame might vaporize a bit of Lead from the base of the boolit,
and it ends up there like a deposit/stain from other smoke.

Also, the farther down the barrel it goes, the less lube it has to grease the inside of the barrel, its going
faster- causing more heat from friction, and a little gets deposited down towards the end.

You powder coat, and then lube on top of that? Just lube should be sufficient. If you are getting leading at all you should be looking at what's wrong. Powder coat should allow you to do it wrong anyway and still not lead the barrel if it's applied correctly.

The lands remove lead strips from a very hard bullet.

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Originally Posted by megasupermagnum

You powder coat, and then lube on top of that? Just lube should be sufficient. If you are getting leading at all you should be looking at what's wrong. Powder coat should allow you to do it wrong anyway and still not lead the barrel if it's applied correctly.

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No, I have some that are PCed and some that are traditionally lubed.

My high volume target ammo gets PCed and my low volume ammo that is loaded much more meticulously is traditionally lubed.

The minimal leading in front of the forcing cone is due to the fact that one of my cylinders is tight. If I leave that cylinder empty and only load 5 rounds I get zero leading.

The thing that is perplexing me is the "powdered" lead pretty much came right out. I'm convinced that I could have just ran a patch down the barrel and it would have came out.

It is antimony wash.

I still don't think you should be getting leading with a powder coated bullet, else what would be the point of powder coating? Maybe the powder is burned powder coat?

In order to sort this out, it would prolly be easier to shoot the pc'ed boolits and check the barrel. Then if nothing presents itself, shoot the traditionally lubed boolits and see whats going on. Then you can look at your alloy composition. My guess its the traditionally lubed boolits and antimony wash. I get it sometimes and most just patches out.

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Originally Posted by megasupermagnum

I still don't think you should be getting leading with a powder coated bullet, else what would be the point of powder coating? Maybe the powder is burned powder coat?

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Once again not all of the 100 rounds were powder coated, in fact many of the rounds I fired were not coated. When I shoot only PCed boolits I get no leading at all. I have fired 100s of PCed boolits in one session with zero leading or this powdery substance so I doubt the PC is the issue.

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Originally Posted by sigep1764

In order to sort this out, it would prolly be easier to shoot the pc'ed boolits and check the barrel. Then if nothing presents itself, shoot the traditionally lubed boolits and see whats going on. Then you can look at your alloy composition. My guess its the traditionally lubed boolits and antimony wash. I get it sometimes and most just patches out.

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This antimony wash theory is new to me as I haven't seen anything about it, I'll do some research on that.

Most of these rounds were loaded long ago before I really had a clue about casting and I just wanted to have the brass back. I did cast and load them myself but back then I used mainly a mix of about ~20 lbs range scrap, ~10 lbs #9 mag shot and ~10 lbs lino that my grandpa gave me.

Looking back I wasted so much lino but before I discovered this site I was taught the harder the better. I don't recall seeing this powder before but I could've easily missed it without proper lighting.

With that mix, ya it is antimony wash. If you still have a bunch of that mix, add an equal amount of pure lead and it will do you fine and this will go away.

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Originally Posted by Ledhead

I was freeing up some brass for some new loads.

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Funny! :grin:

This raises a question in my mind I have thought about a good bit lately. What happens to powder coat in the barrel? If copper/copper jacketed bullets foul the bore, and they do, why not powder coating fouling the bore? If so, maybe this is what the OP saw in his barrel.

Not being a believer in free lunches, I find it hard to believe Powder coating is impervious to friction during a bullet's passage down a barrel especially at high pressure/velocity.

It's a big mystery to me too.
I shoot PC CBs fine with no leading but when suppressed, I got lead deposits in my baffles.
There is some disintegration somehow after it leaves the muzzle before exiting the end cap.
I only shoot Js now suppressed, pistol or rifle.

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Originally Posted by DonH

This raises a question in my mind I have thought about a good bit lately. What happens to powder coat in the barrel? If copper/copper jacketed bullets foul the bore, and they do, why not powder coating fouling the bore? If so, maybe this is what the OP saw in his barrel.

Not being a believer in free lunches, I find it hard to believe Powder coating is impervious to friction during a bullet's passage down a barrel especially at high pressure/velocity.

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You are correct. I have done a lot of testing of PC'd and HT'd bullets over the last several years. These have been with bullets numerous members have sent me. They have been with bullets of various calibers, of various weights tested in numerous cartridges from 600 to 2800 fps. I found most all of them will leave a "fouling" inside bores. Only in a few rare instances did I not find any fouling. As to accuracy the fouling always detracted from it especially I test strings of 10 shots at 25, 50 and 100 yards. Yes I know many think that blasting "steel" at close range is a good "test" of accuracy but I do not think it is......fun yes, a test of accuracy......no.

Here is an example of PC fouling removed from the 6 1/2" barrel of my S&W. The 452-230-TC bullets were cast of COWW + 2% tin alloy and PC'd. The load was my standard 45 ACP load of 5 gr Bullseye. What you see on the Lewis Lead Remover brass "patch" is PC fouling, not leading.

Attachment 248908

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Originally Posted by Ledhead

No, I have some that are PCed and some that are traditionally lubed.

My high volume target ammo gets PCed and my low volume ammo that is loaded much more meticulously is traditionally lubed.

The minimal leading in front of the forcing cone is due to the fact that one of my cylinders is tight. If I leave that cylinder empty and only load 5 rounds I get zero leading.

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IF shooting all your cyl, you answered your own question. Once leading starts, it only gets worse. Small bullets, even one every 5, will get the leading going.

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Originally Posted by DonH

This raises a question in my mind I have thought about a good bit lately. What happens to powder coat in the barrel? If copper/copper jacketed bullets foul the bore, and they do, why not powder coating fouling the bore? If so, maybe this is what the OP saw in his barrel.

Not being a believer in free lunches, I find it hard to believe Powder coating is impervious to friction during a bullet's passage down a barrel especially at high pressure/velocity.

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Everything leaves some fouling behind, just a matter of degree & how hard it is to remove.

Quote "Once again not all of the 100 rounds were powder coated, in fact many of the rounds I fired were not coated. When I shoot only PCed boolits I get no leading at all. I have fired 100s of PCed boolits in one session with zero leading or this powdery substance so I doubt the PC is the issue."

This post would seem to indicate that any "leading" problem is not from using PC bullets. Problem is coming from the traditionally lubed rounds.