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Thus far been happy with my 1874 Sharps 45-70 consistiency. Im loading the 535 Postel and 67gr (weight) of Swiss 1.5F. would like some feedback about what aspect of the load to tune next. I can't really increase the powder charge as my bullet is just about touching the lands with a .030" poly wad. Im a little hesitant to drop my charge as i need that velocity for 600 yds.
Just about touching the lands?
Well. For sure seat the bullet out to bight into the rifling and add powder a grain at a time. Accuracy will certainly be improved.
If my understanding is correct, 1 inch at 100 yards is 1 MOA, thus making 1 MOA at 600 yards 6 inches. 3 MOA would be 18 inches at 600 yards. Am I correct thinking that you have a 3 inch group at 600 yards thus making a 1/2 MOA group? If so, way to go. Most modern rifles can't do 18 inches at 600.
While you don't actually sate what your getting for groups now ( and How many shots are in the group) several aspects of the load will make a difference. First What brass prep have you done? Uniforming primer pockets, deburring flash holes, and sometimes a very small reaming of flash holes ( just enough to even them up to the same size) will show an improvement. Testing different primers both brands and std or mag can show a big difference on performance. Another that may help is a primer wad between primer and case head. How the powder is inserted into the case ( drop tubes dia and length) can make a difference. Compression of the charge. Wad materials and dias. On these single shots I prefer to stay just slightly off the rifling it makes them much easier to load, or have an assist tool handy for when one dosnt go. Use all the tools available to you when testing loads.
When testing loads shoot as far as possible, this will show the loads true performance. Not only test from the bench but also from "position" this shows how the load performs under actuall conditions. When ever possible use a chronograph when testing loads Pay attention to extreme spreads, shot to shot variations and standard deviation. Loads in the 10-15 fps ES are possible with these cartridges. Also if you can get numbers at 2 different distances then the actual BC can be figured and trajectory charts made for the load that are very accurate.
Actual velocity isn't as important as accuracy and consistency is. Knowing the amount of drop and the setting for a given range is most important. Really if a given accurate load is 3 points highr on the ladder than the faster load but shoots better what does it matter? Learn the rifle, learn the load, Learn to read wind and conditions. All of the above combined will save a days match
Yup, do what he says. You may want to wipe between each shot too. At least to begin with. At the very least, blow tube between shots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chill Wills
Also, at 600, pay the most attention to the vertical spread on the target. The horizontal component of the group size will be due to wind almost entirely, unless you are on an absolute bluebird day with completely constant conditions. I don't believe I've ever really seen that all the way out to 600 for an entire string :-).
In my experience you just do what Chill says and pay very close attention to bore condition management. Bore condition means a lot for vertical dispersion, and to truly get to where you want to be will require some effort on that. The devil is in the details.
Chris.
I shot a match last week. Wanted to try some of the suggestions here . Went thru a whole roll of toilet paper wiping between each shot. Not sure what was supposed to happen but sure felt clean at the end of the match :) :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BrentD
Not going the blowing the tube idea thats just weird :) :)
Now that"s funny (sick) but funny/EdQuote:
Originally Posted by Smoke4320
Sorry it was just screaming at me. I just see the irony of the english language and the double meaning of words
Now back to the regularly scheduled discussion of BP shooting
Let me clarify, i'm shooting 30" groups at 600 yds, and now i'm realizing that that equals about 5 to 6 moa, NOT 3 moa like I stated in my title. Sorry for the confusion. Shot a 9 shot string and my average scoring hits were 6's, 7's and 8's which is right at the outer edge of the 36" diameter black on a 600 yd NRA MR target.
The problem with "jamming" into the lands is the fact there is only so much "jam" that I can achieve before I cant get the round to fully chamber and can't close the block. More bullet "jam" is not an option i'm out as far as I can go.
As for my fouling management i'm doing a brush scrub, a damp patch swab and a dry patch swab, bore should be pretty clean for the next shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke4320
Nah man. You own that tube. Two hand it, make eye contact with every single person in the area. Establish dominance. Assert Control. Become Alpha.
Experiment with the powder compression to start. Start with 0 compression no air space and work up adding compression with the charge. Stat with 3 grn increases watching groups, fouling, and if using a chronograph the shot to Shot spreads or ES. Most powders have a sweet spot for the compression it wants. as it goes up es numbers drop and burning becomes cleaner when the sweet spot is passed these start to rise again. For me Swiss seems to run good in the .060-.090 compression range. Once this point is found then experiment with wads thickness and material. Also experiment with crimp and neck tensions
Thanks for the help, my current 67 gr load by weight requires me to compress in two stages to allow correct bullet seating depth. I'll dump 33.5 gr then compress, then dump an additional 33.5 gr and compress again. Not sure if this 2 step compression method is hurting accuracy or not. If I try to dump all 67 gr I can't get enough compression depth for my bullets.Quote:
Originally Posted by country gent
Back it off some -- couple less grains of powder - I never shot Swiss but a lot of blokes reckon it dont like much compression at all - you are really leaning on it !!Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_Clam
There are cartridge seating tools on the market which enable you to "jam" the bullet into the rifling but I find it better to use a bullet with a small enough bore riding section that will allow chambering.
Figure your bullets depth in the case from the case mouth down to the base of the bullet. fill case with powder to this point less the wad thickness and weight this charge. this is the starting load to work up from No compression no air space. Then work up from here. With black powder a grain or 2 change doesn't equal a big velocity change like smokeless does. 2 grains may make 20-30 fps change.
A easy way to "SEE" bullets depth in case is to modify a case in this way. Measure down from mouth 3/8" and layout a square 1/2" long and 3/8" wide cut out square with dremil tool and one cut from mouth to square on front corner of square. Remove any burrs. Insert bullet long and chamber the cut thru the mouth allows bullets to slide in. Carefully remove round and you can measure from case mouth to base of bullet with your calipers to see needed starting powder level. This modified case is handy for different bullets different powders and also different rifles in the same caliber. A splot neck works for oal length of a bullet but the lower window allows base to be seen and measured easily.
To make the case ink the case with lay out dye or a marker. Use a square , dividers or even a small piece of angle Iron to lay out the case then hold case securely in vise and cut with a dremil tool and .030 cutoff wheel. for best results mount new wheel and lightly dress true before cutting. Also size case before cutting and laying out. ( Sizing will remove scribe lines and ink).