...and it says "Worms" on it. I think I'll open it...
In a Winnie 94, performancewise, which is the better caliber-- 30-30 or .32 Special?
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...and it says "Worms" on it. I think I'll open it...
In a Winnie 94, performancewise, which is the better caliber-- 30-30 or .32 Special?
Factory or handloaded? Theory says the 32 can do more.
I have one of each both pre 64, I think the .32ws has a certain mystique about it, plus it make a slightly bigger hole.
BIGGER is always better !
It's all about the twist...................
Jon
I'd go with the third option, 38-55
.32 Win Sp.
Bullet Diameter: .3220 in.
Max Overall Length: 2.565 in.
Rifling Twist: 1-in-16 in.
Rifling Lands: 6
Case Capacity (est): 45.1 gr. water
Primer Size: .210 in.
NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight: 170 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1911 ft-lbs
30-30
Bullet Diameter: .308 in.
Max Overall Length: 2.550 in.
Rifling Twist: 1-in-12 in.
Rifling Lands: 6
Case Capacity (est): 44.4 gr. water
Primer Size: .210 in.
NOMINAL PERFORMANCE
Bullet Weight: 150 gr
Muzzle Velocity: 2390 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1903 ft-lbs
There are far more loads listed on Ammoguide for 30-30 than .32 (duh) with the .30-30 running as high as: 170 PMC Accurate AA-2460 37.0g 2490fps 2341ftlbs 22.0" vs the highest listed .32 170 Hornady Hodgdon H-4895 34.5g 2283fps 1968ftlbs 20.0".
I suppose though, given NEW guns with Modern Steel the .32 could run as hot or hotter than the .30-30.
I would say .32 Winchester Special for the coolness of having something a little different.
Mine shoots great! Of course the 30/30 would be more practical if you didn't reload and you are just buying stock bullets off the shelf.
Oh you said performance wise! Well in that case I don't guess Bambi's goin to know the difference.
my god supermag what you gonna ask next............. 270 or 280?
but a rumor i heard a long time ago said that the 32 was a bit better for bears.
From a practical stand point, I don't think there's a hoot of difference on game animals at "woods" ranges, or under 200yds. if you will. The .30WCF is pretty much universal, you can always find some factory ammo somewhere! I would have to give the .32Wspl. an edge for cast boolits though, as it was intended to be reloaded with them.
When the .30WCF came out in 1895, the only other .30 that most folks ever heard of was the .30 U.S. Army, (Krag) and I imagine some old timers were a little Leary of this new fangled small bore that used smokeless powder. Almost everyone had either used, or at least heard of various .32 caliber rifles, (.32WCF, .32-40, and many others). Winchester brought out the .32Wspl. as a factory ballistic twin to the .30WCF for folks who wished to reload with cast boolits and black powder, hence the 1:16 twist of the .32Wspl. Besides, a lot of old-timers just trusted the .32s, being more familiar with them.
I go with the 32 winchester.
I once shot an elk through the head at 1500 yards, and made a one shot kill.
You cant do that with a 30 30.
I have both and a .32-40 lever besides. The .32 Special is the "hardest shooting" IMO and after much deliberation. Even with similar weight bullets, the .32 has it over the old .30/30. Not so much that a deer could tell the difference. Must be the slightly bigger diameter bullet./beagle
32 Winchester although the 30-30 is close to shooting a 308.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ra_balke
Just curious, but why can't you do that with a 30/30? I've never shot an elk so I don't know anything about it.
Jerry
[smilie=1: :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by ra_balke
I made the same shot with my Daisy Red Rider and a mirror backwards off my shoulder in a 20 MPH wind. Uphill both ways in the snow!
I'm with Corvett.
One of each, both pre '64. .32 has 4x, shoots 2.5" groups at 200 yards. That's good enough for the girls I go with.
For me there has always been something magical about a '94, John Wayne and the like I guess. And yes I know the Duke didn't cary a '94. There is something "special" about the .32. It's my favorite.
2
32 Specials are a great gun. Bullet selection and ease of gas check purchases will always favor the 30's. Gianni
Well lets see I have no less then ELEVEN Marlins in 30-30 and one Winchester in 30-30 . I also own three Marlin's in 32 Special !
So the smart would say I prefer the 30-30 !!!!!!!
And they would be so so WRONG !
I personally prefer the 32 Special over the 30-30 and have no real reason for this .
But I do and thats fine with me !
Now like Beagle I to own a 32-40 . Mine being a Marlin model 1893 that was made in 1906 ! And I prefer this rifle over my 30-30's and 32's .
There have been a lot of myths perpetuated in this age old debate...some of which have reappeared here.
I've stated it before and will do it again...my opinion is that the hands down winner is the .32 Special. However, you know what they say about opinions? Best to stick to facts in resolving any issue. I’ll submit the following and let you form your own opinion.
Anyone truly interested in the subject needs to read the following article which puts many of the aforementioned myths to rest and provides a good factual discussion on the issue.
http://www.levergun.com/articles/special.htm
You well may have already seen this. However, this field has already to some extent been already plowed on this forum. Check out the following for further information.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=26928
I’ll add the following...since we are casters, unless commercial, we are handloaders. Quoted factory ballistics are meaningless unless that’s what you intend to use. I would never judge the capabilities of a .45-70 to an 1895 Marlin owner, an 8mm Mauser to a 98 Mauser owner...or a .32 Special to a .32 Special or 30-30 to a 30-30 owner based on the quoted factory ballistics of the cartridge. A cartridge should be judged on what it is capable of to a careful handloader using it in a good quality firearm. You need to check the pressure rating of their load to make an informed decision as many cartridges are commercially underloaded for good and sometimes no apparent reason. Here, handloading manuals have an advantage. They usually list barrel length with their chronographed loads and sometimes pressure. Both are essential in providing comparisons.
When checking ballistics, be they factory loadings or handloads, barrel length of the tested firearm is too often overlooked. However, this is very important because rifle, bullet, and powder manufacturers all have a vested interest in publishing the best ballistics they can. They frequently use the longest barrel in standard manufacture for that reason. This is very appropriate in the current discussion. Lets examine what Hodgdon says the .32 is capable of...much as McPherson did using Winchester powder. I’ll use the Hodgdon reloading manual and 4895 powder since its been around since well before the .32 Special was discontinued by Winchester.
.32 Special...20 INCH barrel...max load 170 gr. Bullet
34.5 gr. H4895...velocity 2283 fps...pressure 36,100 cup. Calculated energy 1968 fp.
30-30...24 INCH barrel...max load 170 gr. Bullet
30.5 gr. H4895...velocity 2138...pressure 35,200 cup. Calculated energy 1726 fp.
Note: You may say no fair...the .32 is operating at higher pressure. Well, then lets switch to a newer powder...Varget...32 delivers 2271 at 36,400 cup...30-30 2168 at 36,500 cup. My guess is that 4 inches of barrel advantage on the 30-30 is worth at least 100 fps so the actual difference would be significantly more than shown if barrels were of equal length. Only one powder BL-C(2) is listed as equaling the .32 Special load in the 30-30...but requires a 24 inch barrel to do it, the .32 is superior with all others...even in a 20 inch barrel..
That is a 14% energy advantage to the .32. How important in killing power is that energy advantage in combination with a 2 caliber advantage in diameter? Well many firearm pundits (and many others based on their reporting) say the .32 Special has no real performance advantage over the 30-30. Yet they will laud the 7mm Rem Magnum as much superior to the old .270 as a long range hunting rifle. Are they correct?...well back to Hodgdon. Lets use another old powder H4831. This time we’ll use a 24 inch barrel on the 7mm...not the 26 inch that 7mm loads are frequently chronographed in as very few use a 26 inch barrel.
24 inch barrel...max load 140 gr. bullet both rifles
.270...58 gr. 4831...velocity 2888 fps...pressure 50,100 cup. Calculated energy 2593
7mm Mag...64 gr. 4831...velocity 2950...pressure 50,200 cup. Calculated energy 2706
That’s a 4% energy increase. Apparently those pundits believe a 1 caliber and 4% energy increase is of more consequence than a 2 caliber 14% increase. You can go down the list of various powders...any way you cut it there’s only about a 100 fps advantage to a 7mm Mag. Biggest advantage strikes me as the availability of somewhat heavier bullets in a 7.
So, I would say forget what the pundits say about the .32 Special or any other caliber. Get the facts and make your own decision. If the question is performance, level the playing field and the actual ballistics should make the answer an easy one.
Since this is a cast bullet forum...its appropriate to ask the question: Which is the most cast friendly? Don’t think many knowledgeable cast shooters will argue that the 12 inch twist of the 30-30 is superior to the 16 inch of the .32....and yes, that 16 inch twist is ideal for stabilizing the bullet lengths in common use in the rifle.
After this past weekend I will definitely say .32 Winchester Special with cast Boolits