450 rebuild questions.

I've acquired a Lyman 450 that I'm working on cleaning up and have a couple questions.

http://utahsportsmen.com/pictures/i....1acf37d-me.jpg

This is what presses down on the lube stick but it appears to be missing O rings or is it just an old style. There was also the mashed up plastic pieces which I'm not sure what it is?
http://utahsportsmen.com/pictures/i....c9e7623-me.jpg

There also appears to be some plastic stuck in the bottom which I haven't been able to get out. Does the bottom plug come out? The bottom piece piece looks like it's staked in?
http://utahsportsmen.com/pictures/i....f7a4406-me.jpg

I cleaned out my very old RCBS sizer by boiling it in hot water. The top just sits in the top with out a rubber seal. The bottom is pressed in and does not need to come out.

So I removed the bottom plug and above the plug in the lube channel that goes to the sizing die was a messed up plastic piece that I dug out. Its almost like someone left the plastic container around a stick of lube and smashed the hell out of it.

Muddydogs, Lyman's manual for the #450 says the "O" rings for the piston are a hardware store item, just be sure you take it with you when shopping for them. (Don't ask!) Also, be careful of the die retaining nut and the associated lube sizer body threads when you reassemble it as they are very fine and an obsolete thread & pitch. Lastly, before you install the #450 on your bench, get some shirt cardboard or tablet backing, put it under the base, poke holes in it for the mounting bolts, bolt the #450 down, and trim the cardboard with a new utility knife blade. That simple step will positively stop (or prevent) any leaking from the base (because of a poor fit).

Mine started leaking badly a few years ago and prompted me to tear into it. I found the "O" rings to be difficult to find. I got mine at a friendly implement (Case IH) dealer. If I did it again I would buy everything from Lyman. Thats not easy to do. I've dealt with several much easier places to deal with. The bottom plug is staked in place. It can be restaked but it helps to have another pair of hands.

Muddydogs , the piston , with the brass expansion ring , is the old style piston. I have removed the one from mine , cleaned it and made sure the brass ring came in contact with the sides of the unit.
Leave the plastic in the bottom , it doesn't come out . Mine will screw in too far and come off the shaft, it's a pain to get out, the spacer keeps this from happening.
You can get a complete rebuild kit from Lyman , I got the O-ringed piston but after cleaning and freeing the brass piston it worked fine so I am saving the new O-ring one.
The O rings can be found at the hardware store but the one in your photo doesn't use them.. clean up what you have and make sure the brass is free to press against the sides of the lube reservoir , you will need to compress the ring with your fingers to go into the opening...it should be fine. Brass is more expensive than a rubber O-ring and lasts much longer , mine is 50 years old and still working fine.
Gary

Ya well the plastic in the bottom was all messed up and some of it was in the lube reservoir broken off so I removed the bottom plug, which isn't staked to well if at all as it came out very easy, and dug the remaining plastic out. Guess I will see what I can get from Lyman, might get a new piston as the old brass one isn't very tight and had a bunch of lube on top of it that had leaked around the piston.

I have a newer lube sizer so I am just messing around with this one to see if I can get it working again, someday I might decide to use a different lube but right now I'm only using one lube so two sizers isn't necessary.

Someone messed with this lube sizer before as the ram was put in backwards, the allen head set screw that holds the top punch in place was facing the press body instead of facing out where it can be accessed.

I don't think were talking about the same plastic. I see on some parts diagrams that there is a plastic collar around the piston rod at the bottom of the lube reservoir. This luber doesn't have the collar or its missing. After looking at the amount and type of plastic I removed from the lube reservoir I really think its the plastic tube that lube sticks come in, it appears to me that someone took the ends of a lube stick plastic container and but the tube and lube stick in the reservoir then proceed to mash the heck out of the plastic.

I used the piston to get the bottom plug reset in its place but when raising the piston I had to put side tension on the piston rod to get the piston to stop spinning. Looks like the brass piston sides are wore out, I might be able to shim the inside of the brass ring that goes around the piston nut to get enough friction but a new one is in order.

A heat gun sure works good to get the old lube running so it can be wiped up easy.

From what I seen in your photos, I believe your hunch is correct.

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After looking at the amount and type of plastic I removed from the lube reservoir I really think its the plastic tube that lube sticks come in, it appears to me that someone took the ends of a lube stick plastic container and but the tube and lube stick in the reservoir then proceed to mash the heck out of the plastic.

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As to the Brass sleeved pressure nut:
I doubt that it's worn excessively, as it requires the lube in the reservoir. As pressure is applied to the lube, the lube pushes the brass sleeve against the reservoir for friction and to seal it. Now, these old style pressure nuts are known to leak even when in good condition, when too much pressure or too much heat is applied.

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Originally Posted by Muddydogs

I don't think were talking about the same plastic. I see on some parts diagrams that there is a plastic collar around the piston rod at the bottom of the lube reservoir. This luber doesn't have the collar or its missing. After looking at the amount and type of plastic I removed from the lube reservoir I really think its the plastic tube that lube sticks come in, it appears to me that someone took the ends of a lube stick plastic container and but the tube and lube stick in the reservoir then proceed to mash the heck out of the plastic.

I used the piston to get the bottom plug reset in its place but when raising the piston I had to put side tension on the piston rod to get the piston to stop spinning. Looks like the brass piston sides are wore out, I might be able to shim the inside of the brass ring that goes around the piston nut to get enough friction but a new one is in order.

A heat gun sure works good to get the old lube running so it can be wiped up easy.

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I put a piece of copper tubing on the threaded shaft, to give the piston a positive stop.

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk

me too. Back when I used lymans I had a leaky one and tried about every o ring that looked close and none of them were right.

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Originally Posted by lightman

Mine started leaking badly a few years ago and prompted me to tear into it. I found the "O" rings to be difficult to find. I got mine at a friendly implement (Case IH) dealer. If I did it again I would buy everything from Lyman. Thats not easy to do. I've dealt with several much easier places to deal with. The bottom plug is staked in place. It can be restaked but it helps to have another pair of hands.

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I rebuilt one years ago and IIRC there was an O ring in the plug that is staked into the bottom. It had broken and leaked badly. I miked it and got a selection of sizes that were close from the plumbing section at ACE. Used the one that seemed to fit best and restaked the plug. Doesn't leak now. Can't remember if there was an O ring where the threaded shaft seats against the plug, if so ACE is your friend.

I found an O ring for the bottom plug in the selection of O rings purchased from Harbor Freight, I just happened to have there O ring kit laying around.

Since you mentioned o rings being hard to find, maybe try home depot or lowes in the plumbing dept. Danco makes rebuilding repair kits for delta faucets. Included in the kits are usually 4 o rings or if the place is well stocked you can buy them separate. Not sure but I think they also have o rings stocked separately as well. Our local lowes right now is going through a rebuild and it helps to find someone who knows where stuff is. Just bought a hitachi belt sander but they had no 1/3rd sheet pad sanders. Only the little ones. Frank

If you have an Ace hardware store nearby, they usually carry a lot of things we can use in rebuilding or replacing. My local Ace has O rings of every size and a lot of small pins, bolts, nuts, etc. that I have used on my reloading machines/tools. Just a suggestion.

Reading this thread and the one on the Lyman 45, I'm wondering if I could rehab my Lyman 450? Is it a tough job? Are there things to look out for? Hints & advice welcome. Where to start?
725

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Originally Posted by 725

Reading this thread and the one on the Lyman 45, I'm wondering if I could rehab my Lyman 450? Is it a tough job? Are there things to look out for? Hints & advice welcome. Where to start?
725

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Since I am not a fan of the 450's design, I've never rebuilt a 450. I do know Lyman has a handle/linkage upgrade kit for the old style linkage of the early 450...that makes me think that the old style 450 handle/linkage is inferior and that would be the first thing I'd check into if I were to rebuilt an old unit. Then the Ram is notorious for wearing the cast Iron chassis and becomes sloppy due to the cam-over effect, there is no easy fix for that, BUT theperfessor did a extensive rebuilt many years ago, where he addressed that issue. The original link he posted at his college's website has disappeared, but the "wayback machine" has it.

http://web.archive.org/web/201205250...berRebuild.htm

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Originally Posted by 725

Reading this thread and the one on the Lyman 45, I'm wondering if I could rehab my Lyman 450? Is it a tough job? Are there things to look out for? Hints & advice welcome. Where to start?
725

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It's a simple design easy to deal with. Take it apart and start cleaning.

Jon,

I wish I had the skill.