No groove 45/70

Gentlemen,
I am new to the centerfire reloading world. I have been working with rimfire now for almost 4 years but have yet to begin reloading for center fire. I have a plan and want to ask advise before embarking:
Swaging lead bullets from cores, I can make dies of any size without much trouble. They can be made hollow point or hollow base but I cannot impart grooves in them. I have also found that making a reasonably close to final sized core, this core can be powder coated before swaging, resulting in a very nice swaged to size powder coated bullet. I am currently doing this for my 9mm luger and 38 S&W. It had occurred to me that I have not seen 45/70 boolits that were without crimp grooves. So my question is this...would a grooveless bullet work in a 45/70? Would there be any advantage to making the base hollow? Would a powder coated boollit be adequate without lube? Or are there any other reasons to scratch the idea of doing this?

The need for a crimp groove depends on what rifle you're using. If it's a tuberal magazine like some lever actions I'd think a crimp groove would be nice. If for a single shot (Rolling block, Sharps, etc) I don't see the need for a crimp groove since I tend to crimp those very lightly (if any). I cast a slick bullet for 45-70 and powder coat with success - this is for smokeless powder. If for black powder, then you do need lube to keep the BP fowling soft.

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Originally Posted by KenH

The need for a crimp groove depends on what rifle you're using. If it's a tuberal magazine like some lever actions I'd think a crimp groove would be nice. If for a single shot (Rolling block, Sharps, etc) I don't see the need for a crimp groove since I tend to crimp those very lightly (if any). I cast a slick bullet for 45-70 and powder coat with success - this is for smokeless powder. If for black powder, then you do need lube to keep the BP fowling soft.

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Great, I 'm shooting a H&R Handi rifle with smokeless powder. So...I go ahead with the project, Thanks for that info.

Lube grooves are present to hold the lube required to let the bullet go down the barrel without leading. If your size is correct, a bullet without grooves might just be the ticket for paper patching.

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Originally Posted by 725

Lube grooves are present to hold the lube required to let the bullet go down the barrel without leading. If your size is correct, a bullet without grooves might just be the ticket for paper patching.

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Although I have thought about paper patching and may in the future, these boolits are going to be powder coated. If someone out there would like some grooveless boolits for paper patching...give me some dimensions and I will see what I can whip up.

A grooveless boolit can work with a grease cookie or greased wad behind it or it can be knurled or grooved after swaging then lubed:

http://www.corbins.com/hct-2.htm

Corbin also makes a grooving tool.

Powder coating may work and I suppose should because quite a number of people are powder coating cast boolits quite successfully.

The only down side to swaging is that you are limited to soft lead so pressures and velocities may have to be kept relatively low.

longbow

Paper patching or Coating should work well a grease cookie might be used under the bullet to lube for next shot. A lube cookie .060-.080 thick sitting on a wad cut from a playing card above the powder and under the bullet. You would want the wad a snug fit in the case to stay in place

Using smokeless there is no need for a grease cookie when PP..
I don't powder coat but see no reason why what you propose won't work..
You might have to gas check the bullet if you are going for high vel. and using soft lead..
Another thing I would experiment with is swirling the PC bullets in a liquid lube like Lee Alox thinned down..
Be sure to post your results and good luck..

I like the gas check idea. I could swage it right on during the swaging process.
I just started swaging lead bigger than .22". I made a 9mm swaging setup and it squishes 16BHN pretty well. I wonder how hard of lead I can do with the .460" boolits. Will have to wait till I get to that point.
How hard of lead would I need in the 45/70 with no GC, just powder coated, to say run these boolits (around 320 grains) at 1400fps? I doubt if I will ever shoot anything hotter than that.

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Originally Posted by Nrut

Using smokeless there is no need for a grease cookie when PP..
I don't powder coat but see no reason why what you propose won't work..
You might have to gas check the bullet if you are going for high vel. and using soft lead..
Another thing I would experiment with is swirling the PC bullets in a liquid lube like Lee Alox thinned down..
Be sure to post your results and good luck..

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I have read that lubing powdercoated boolits is not a good idea. The powder coat is slipperier than the lubed boolits and it seems that some powder coat reacts to lube. There is a thread here somewhere where they were discussing it recently.

I would try shooting what you have PCd without worrying about the hardness/velocity thing. I run .357 PCd soft lead plain base to 1800 fps in a rifle with no leading. PC makes my tin last a lot longer- I use only enough to get good filling.
Loren

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Originally Posted by Traffer

I like the gas check idea. I could swage it right on during the swaging process.
I just started swaging lead bigger than .22". I made a 9mm swaging setup and it squishes 16BHN pretty well. I wonder how hard of lead I can do with the .460" boolits. Will have to wait till I get to that point.
How hard of lead would I need in the 45/70 with no GC, just powder coated, to say run these boolits (around 320 grains) at 1400fps? I doubt if I will ever shoot anything hotter than that.

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You don"t need GC at that speed (at least I don"t) Ed