.410/Slug Gurus - help please

So from the files titled, "And then, for no particular reason..." I thought I would make up a rather silly thing: a 444 case with a 125 grs Barry's flat nose plated .358 bullet in a Ballistic Products 1/2oz short shot cup.

Components were:

Remington 444 Marlin brass
CCI Large pistol primers
11.5 grs Alliant 410
3 Circle Fly over powder cards .430"
Ballistic Products short shot cup 1/2 oz
Barry's plated .358 125 grs (0.26 oz) bullet
Circle Fly over shot card
The powder was well compressed and the 3 over powder cards were a compressed right fit. The shot cup with gas check are a loose fit.

Results were:

Disappointing!
Primer ignited, bullet and overshot card slid out the end of the barrel, shot cup remained stuck in barrel about 3/4 of the way down, and seemingly all sunburned powder dropped out of the breech.

Sooooo,

I have very successfully made up 444 shot shells using these components with #9 shot, but as I recall, I will have used Win LR primers.

My guess is that the column is so light that the primer igniting pushed everything down the barrel before the powder could ignite and the pistol primer, with no pressure and the powder halfway down the barrel, couldn't ignite the powder.

That sound about right?

Before filing this in the "Well, that was stupid" rack (a not inconsiderable volume of files at our house I might point out), I was thinking that a 200 Grains .358 Hirnady FTX at .46 oz might do the trick. Would a LR primer be better, or just offset the higher weight "slug"?

It doesn't really matter; it was a what can I do with the kids' old Rossi single shot .410. It's so incredibly light.

Anyway, thoughts on my theory, proposals for a more effective 444/410 slug load (despite the ready availability of ready made, well functioning for what they are factory slugs), and even disparaging commentary on the uselessness of such an idea anyway (recognized) all welcome ;-)

If you get this load to ignite properly it will most likely keyhole because the barrel isn't rifled. IMO, a round ball would be a better choice. Actually, a triball load might be better.

I am not familiar with the Rossi but you need to consider the choke constriction. On a real light barrel it might be possible to damage the choke or barrel if a hard solid projectile is forced through the choke.

BB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bikerbeans

If you get this load to ignite properly it will most likely keyhole because the barrel isn't rifled. IMO, a round ball would be a better choice. Actually, a triball load might be better.

I am not familiar with the Rossi but you need to consider the choke constriction. On a real light barrel it might be possible to damage the choke or barrel if a hard solid projectile is forced through the choke.

BB

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BB I know you know quite a bit about the 410 slug game, thanks for chiming in. The little Rossi is choked Mod and the bullet in shot cup will squeeze through the choke - I checked that in advance due to the concern you mention. A 36 cal round ball weighs about 72 grs, so not going to help if the issue is weight of column. If a triball fits, it would though.

FWIW, I found if you cut the crimp off a factory 410 7 1/2 shot shell and dump the pellets out you can load three 0.31 cal RBs and have enough hull left above the wad petals to roll crimp. The pellets are loose enough not to cause a problem in a choke tube. My only functional 410 has a fully rifled barrel and these shot poorly.

I don't remember who, but someone posted a load similar to yours but loaded a 9mm cast boolit with the base pointed forward. The idea was to have a weight forward slug to help with stability. I don't remember if it was an accurate load.

The 444 brass your are using, was it FF to your 410 chamber before you loaded it? If not this could contribute to poor ignition as a sized piece of 444 brass would be fairly loose in a 410 chamber.

BB

Excellent advice. Thanks.

I have some Federal Factory .410 Slugs These are 125 gr. slugs at 1725 fps! That is pretty far up into .357 mag. territory . I have shot these in my M6 Scout and they actually go where you point them.

BPI has some slugs with attached wads which also work pretty well and could easily be loaded up to the same level. $16 for 25 ea.

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/searchprods.asp

On the same page there is some DGS 12 ga. slugs that have wads that look suspiciously like the ones from Russia with the hose barbs on the end that plug into the hollow in the back of the slug. $17 for 25 of them is not a bad price considering what it would cost to tool up to cast them and especially if you didn't plan on shooting a zillion of them.

BPI also has load data for loading those slugs to any level you feel comfortable with.

Some other ideas how to make it happen.

Randy

WRB, thank you for good advice. The sensible thing would be to buy those Federal slugs. The rational thing might be to get some actual 410 slugs from Ballistic Products for which there is load data... Hopefully, I can bring myself to do one or the other.

I had the same issue using 444 and Magtech .410 brass whilst trying to use known good loads from plastic hulls and RMC brass hulls. I put it down to fire forming and then the .410 wads and volumes not fitting properly in the brass. Had the exact same symptom as you.

How come not buying factory Russian slugs from Zanders, they have them through your local dealers. They shoot good and metal/Brass case...? They have oudels and gobs of different .410 shells. With that said, Guess who has them getting him a .410 Mec. Size master....HHMmmmnnnnnn

If you want some 1200fps from a long barrel, use a fast powder, like the ones you would use for 12ga. 6-7 grains would do the trick. I load 6.5 grains most of the time from 5/16oz to 3/8oz loads, being shot or round ball (~130grains as mine are at around .440"). I think your powder choice is too slow, sp. because the load is very light and there's no strong crimp to help build pressure.