Need advice on 1887 Winchester 10 Gauge ASAP!

So I walked into a gun shop last week and the man asked me if I was interested in a 10 gauge. I said yes. He goes in the back and comes out with an 1887! I had been looking for one for a really long time. He said it wasnt for sale yet because the gunsmith hadn't looked at it. He showed me the gun with his little tag on it... It had the serial number, and 50$ on it. He paid it 50$ ! I told him to keep it in back for me until the gunsmith comes back ( hes on vacation until this Tuesday). So I need to head there at 2pm to check it out again. Anyways, I have questions.

Whats a decent price? He paid it 50$... I have the Gun Value book but Id like a more realistic price from someone who possibly owns/bought one. I saw some go from 1000-15,000.
I think if its over a grand il pass. It looks pristine condition though. :(

What shells can I feed it? I heard for the 10 gauge I would need to cut my own shells...?

Smokeless safe or BP only?

Will it give me trouble? Feeding, action problems... etc?



I cant sleep at night im really excited. The only thing bothering me is the price he'll throw at me once the gunsmith loks at it. The owner is more of a fishing guy so im sure he has no idea. Im probably just getting my hopes up :'(

2 7/8” shells which most cut down themselves today. It’s my understanding not nitro proofed until the 1901 model so low pressure smokeless or blackpowder. I am loading low pressure smokeless for a 1878 Colt double barrel 10 gauge. I am only shooting 1 1/4 oz. shot though. So while you can get one of these old dinasours back shooting, their usefulness is really limited. But nothing wrong with getting a smile on your face shooting black powder at clay pigeons.

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Originally Posted by smkummer

2 7/8” shells which most cut down themselves today. It’s my understanding not nitro proofed until the 1901 model so low pressure smokeless or blackpowder. I am loading low pressure smokeless for a 1878 Colt double barrel 10 gauge. I am only shooting 1 1/4 oz. shot though. So while you can get one of these old dinasours back shooting, their usefulness is really limited. But nothing wrong with getting a smile on your face shooting black powder at clay pigeons.

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Well if I load them up with BP they'd be good enough for hunting. Thats what they were designed for. Same thing with smokeless if I can get load data hopefully.

Sounds nice, good luck for a fair price! Be sure and let us know.

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Originally Posted by Speedo66

Sounds nice, good luck for a fair price! Be sure and let us know.

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Il post on here or il make a new thread for sure if I end up buying it! I hope he wont sell it at a ridiculous price :(

The 1887 models, both the 10 and 12 gauge were made for black powder. Winchester did not start using fluid steel until the 1901 model, that model is made for smokeless powders. I am working on data for both the 10 & 12 gauge. I have one of each arriving next week. I plan on trying to work up safe loads for both in bird shot and in buck shot. If your 10 is in good shape, and you can get it for under 1000, I'd be on it like stink on a skunk. Be sure to show up with the intent to at least spend that much. Combined mine cost a little over 2700. I'm going to be using bp supplies from BPI and Circle fly for the fillers and wadding, and Goex 2F for my powder. I have a few paper shells both ten and twelve gauge from back in the eighties when they were still sold, but I will take on a active hunt for new paper ten gauge hulls, twelve gauge paper will not be a issue.

Good luck on securing your ten. Not a lot of them out there, and they will only get more expensive in the future. That's a fact.

https://s19.postimg.cc/f2pnha7gz/201...impson_Ltd.png

https://s19.postimg.cc/3qd1zm1dv/201...impson_Ltd.png

Collectors go wild on original condition, rare variations and factory engraving sometimes. I think it would be a very exceptional 1887 that would sell for anywhere near the top end of that estimate. Dealers price to cover expenses, profit and having their cash tied up for a while, and sometimes they price them on the chance of what salmon fishermen term a blind one or a daft one, intending to lower the price if none shows up. To get a good idea of what they sell for, look at www.gunbroker.com and watch them till they sell. Bidding so far isn't much of a guide.

Still, your gun shop could charge a pretty massive markup on that $50 (if it isn't a label from a few decades ago), before you would be getting a bad deal on a sound 1887. It is an extremely usable gun. They perfected the double shotgun with that kind of barrel steel, in the days when smokeless powder was less predictable than it is now, and a single, with the need for weight to control recoil, is almost invariably stronger in the barrel than a double. The advantage in patterning of the 10 over a magnum 12 has taken a knock with the introduction of shot-cup wads and steel shot (and steel, by the way, shouldn't be used in this gun if it still has a choke.) But with the 2⅞in. shells and black or moderate smokeless loads, it is still an extremely effective firearm.

It looks clumsy, but the real measurement of how well a shotgun handles is the moment of inertia. Hang a shotgun horizontally by its point of balance, depress and release either end, and the fewer and briefer oscillations before it comes to rest, the lower its moment of inertia. A lot of people are surprised to find that such singles as the Greener GP Martini, the humble Stevens bolt-action box-magazine 12ga and the two-shot Browning when it has the alloy barrel, rank up there with the best hand-made doubles. The 1887, with those big shells in a tube magazine, won't be that good. But it is a whole lot better than it looks.

Back in 60s when deer hunting took off big time in Ohio most guys just used their everyday shot
gun to hunt with. A guy using a 12g Win LA blew up the gun with a rifled slug. Luckily he wasn't
hurt seriously. He claimed it had been shot for years with modern 23/4" ammo. I was just a kid
then but I never forgot it. I have owned so nice BP shotguns, the last a beautiful Colt SxS. I don't
Subscribe to anything but BP in them. There are a lot of them around besides being twist are
badly pitted. The pressure curve on BP vs Smokeless is not the same and people not smart enough
to even know about chamber length are accidents waiting to happen. I have seen more than one
BP Twist ruptured by smokeless ammo. If I was into it and had a expensive gun I would use nothing but BP. Seems God protects fools and little children. I'm neither so I go for the safe way.

Drm50

I think you hit it on the head. It's so easy to think that I'll just use a lite load of smokeless and it will be ok. I'm sure it is tempting to many, but if you want to shoot smokeless, than the best way to do it is to buy a firearm made for smokeless powder.

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Originally Posted by MOA

The 1887 models, both the 10 and 12 gauge were made for black powder. Winchester did not start using fluid steel until the 1901 model, that model is made for smokeless powders. I am working on data for both the 10 & 12 gauge. I have one of each arriving next week. I plan on trying to work up safe loads for both in bird shot and in buck shot. If your 10 is in good shape, and you can get it for under 1000, I'd be on it like stink on a skunk. Be sure to show up with the intent to at least spend that much. Combined mine cost a little over 2700. I'm going to be using bp supplies from BPI and Circle fly for the fillers and wadding, and Goex 2F for my powder. I have a few paper shells both ten and twelve gauge from back in the eighties when they were still sold, but I will take on a active hunt for new paper ten gauge hulls, twelve gauge paper will not be a issue.

Good luck on securing your ten. Not a lot of them out there, and they will only get more expensive in the future. That's a fact.

https://s19.postimg.cc/f2pnha7gz/201...impson_Ltd.png

https://s19.postimg.cc/3qd1zm1dv/201...impson_Ltd.png

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If you have any progress on load data, can you post it here? IM talking like I already bought the gun, but im really excited! Thanks alot!

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Originally Posted by MOA

Drm50

I think you hit it on the head. It's so easy to think that I'll just use a lite load of smokeless and it will be ok. I'm sure it is tempting to many, but if you want to shoot smokeless, than the best way to do it is to buy a firearm made for smokeless powder.

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I have many rifles of the BP era, 1873 and an 1886. I use smokeless in all of them but i do some heavy research before adding any type of powder.
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https://i.imgur.com/DvofRUW.jpg

Kev, I know many do that. For myself I will stick to black on those guns made and ment for black. I wish you continued success in your endeavors with substituting smokeless.

No heavy smokeless loads!!!! The receiver WILL crack. With the shorter b/p equivlant loads they are a hoot to shoot and it the extractors are good they work well but you have to get use to the long lever throw or you will be short stroking it. Even thought they are rated for smokeless after 1901 they are still not the strongest action and hence the lighter loads whatever you do don't slip in a modern long shell.

Back issues of Double Gun Jrnl have a HUGE series on modern smokeless in Damascus bbls.

I use the data for my 10 ga Ithaca cannon breech (2& 7/8) and my 12 ga 1894 Rem.

100s fired no issues.

NOTE: bores MUST be perfect. Any pitting is like tooth decay, small on the outside, bigger where you can't see.

There's a fella on here who posts in the shotgun forum a lot who has several old Damascus ten gauge doubles he shoots buck shot though. Can't remember what his screen name is at the moment, but he seems to have it figured out pretty well.

Well I think the op was specifically speaking to the 1887 model, NOT the Winchester model 1901. 1901 IS the model number in this case that Winchester used different steel in than what was used in the 1887 model. Easy to tell which model you have. That model 1901 has a two piece lever handle, and it was only made in 10 gauge. The 1887 was made in both 10 and 12 gauge, but when Winchester came out with the new an improved model 1901 they did not produce one chambered in 12 gauge. If it is a 1887 model, it is a black powder cartridge firing shotgun.

Kev18, I will post my work up and components along with my methodology so a complete grasp of my approach to these loading can be discerned.

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Originally Posted by MOA

Kev18, I will post my work up and components along with my methodology so a complete grasp of my approach to these loading can be discerned.

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Thanks alot!

Went to the bank today and took out 500$ il see what he wants for it. Definitely not paying more than 1000$. He literally paid 50$ for it. Even 500$ is a 10x profit.

I read somewhere that 87 is wire twist 12 or 10g. The 1901 was avaible with choice of barrel steel
and 10g only. I have several Levers and Single Shots from BP days. I load all them with light
loads of smokeless and cast bullets. A steel barrel is a different animal than a wire or ribbon twist
shotgun barrel but you still have to use common sense. I don't know anyone who blew up a old
rifle. I know several guys who blew up twist barrels. I hear the same old story they shot store
bought shells in it for years. That may be true but it finally lets loose and one could at any time.
I have also seen revolvers from BP days with cracked cylinders from smokeless loads.

I had a beautiful Austrian SxS 16g wire twist. I turned a couple dummy shells out of stainless and
bored them for 410. I have a buddy that has a German 10g single barrel. It's got steel barrels
but short chambers. I believe he was able to buy shells off a specialty outfit in Minn.