To quick to the scratch

(James 5:7-16) "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. {8} Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. {9} Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door. {10} Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience. {11} Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. {12} But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation. {13} Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. {14} Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: {15} And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. {16} Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much."

Sometimes, my zeal can be problematic. I don't suppose any of you suffer from this?

Luk 13:6-9
Then he told this parable: “A man had a fig tree growing in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it but did not find any.
So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
“ ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it.
If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ ”


Father I pray you will help me to be patient with others, and you would be patient with me. Help me to be nourished by you word and guided by your spirit.

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And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves

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Sometimes offensive actions are required.

Yes sometimes. But understand Jesus went into the temple. He and he alone knows people's hearts. And he alone knows what the future holds.

We need to be careful in how we deal with Gods people

Jesus had no compassion for religious people when it came to scriptual truths. Only concerning their eternal soul did He have compassion for them.

It's not God's people we have to be careful with, it's His anointing.

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11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things arenaked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.

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You said only Jesus (the Word) knows man's heart, you are correct. What you failed to say or acknowledge is, Christ the Word, the Anointed is alive in His sheep. Not all the sheep in the fold are His sheep, there are some that don't hear His voice, they just follow the other sheep. The living Word gives light to all darkness, if it fails to shine then it's not light. We are the salt of the earth, if we loose our flavor, well?

Being guided by the Spirit is wisdom at work. We don't have to stand up for the word, it does that all on it's own, but when He moves you, you best move because He prepared you for it.

1johnlb
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves
Sometimes offensive actions are required

Is this the same line of reasoning that would have you kill a Dr who performs abortions, or blow up the clinic? I'm not entirely sure what keeps Christians that follow this line of reasoning from doing such! After all, you'd be protecting the innocent, no?

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Originally Posted by Thundarstick

1johnlb
And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves
Sometimes offensive actions are required

Is this the same line of reasoning that would have you kill a Dr who performs abortions, or blow up the clinic? I'm not entirely sure what keeps Christians that follow this line of reasoning from doing such! After all, you'd be protecting the innocent, no?

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I for one would never kill anyone, Dr or fetus. In fact this is a completely different matter all together. The abortion clinic is not God's temple. There's so many places to draw a line in this matter, but personally I don't judge it. Those who practice such are condemned by it, because they open a door for the enemy. Just as a alcoholic or drug addict waste away in bondage.

Besides death isn't the worst thing a man can face, hell is.

Sometimes offensive actions are required.

I'm missing something then. What kinds of offensive actions are you speaking of? Afterall the RC church wears a very bloody robe when viewed through history's lens!

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Originally Posted by Thundarstick

Sometimes offensive actions are required.

I'm missing something then. What kinds of offensive actions are you speaking of? Afterall the RC church wears a very bloody robe when viewed through history's lens!

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And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves

I don't know any other way to explain it, if you don't think Jesus offended the religious people when He went in and overturned the moneychangers tables, or when He preached about their errored ways, in parables through out the new testament. They where offended at almost everything Jesus did, forgiveness, healing on the Sabbath, casting out demons, etc..etc... The religious are still offended by these things today, they cut down anybody and everybody that does what Jesus said, we could do. They will be offended. Even so called "christains" with a belief but fail to believe.

Clearly then you are just talking and expressing your views that will offend those who don't hold them. I was hearing you ask for the physical acts to stop your view of false teaching.

I'm sitting here smiling, Claude. Yep. Zeal is a good thing, but it takes more than mere good intentions for it to work positive works in this world, and sometimes, we all proceed BEFORE we've really thought out where we want to go or what we really want to do. Just another of our very common (universal?) frailties we have to learn to live with, and control to the highest degree we can. Nothing turns the profane away quicker or more decidedly than a new convert whose zeal propels him to "witness" to those who've heard all he has to say many times before, and have just rejected it. Really effective zeal is characterized almost always by thoughtful consideration BEFORE we open our mouths. It's been a difficult lesson for me to learn, and I'm still trying to master it, but .... it's worth every effort and consideration we can give it. Can I get an "amen?"

amēn
am-ane'
Of Hebrew origin [H543]; properly firm, that is, (figuratively) trustworthy; adverbially surely (often as interjection so be it): - amen, verily.

Amen!

The money changers and those that sold doves in the temple. When the people went up to Jerusalem to worship, were they not required to bring their sacrifice? it became to "hard" to travel all that way bringing the best of my best, I'll be lazy and just carry a little money and buy a "sacrifice" that someone else will provide for me, may not be the best but hey, who cares, i'm going all that way. I can take this one little short cut on my requirements. That is why Jesus upset the apple cart

And they were doing it in the Court of the Gentiles - so filling the court that there was no place for gentiles to worship. In so doing they had turned His Father's house into a marketplace. Do we have room for overt sinners in our Churches or are we so pure the dirty aren't welcome?

He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers.”

From what I have been told, the people selling and changing money were overcharging for their services essentially stealing from the worshipers visiting the temple.

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Originally Posted by 454 shooter

The money changers and those that sold doves in the temple. When the people went up to Jerusalem to worship, were they not required to bring their sacrifice? it became to "hard" to travel all that way bringing the best of my best, I'll be lazy and just carry a little money and buy a "sacrifice" that someone else will provide for me, may not be the best but hey, who cares, i'm going all that way. I can take this one little short cut on my requirements. That is why Jesus upset the apple cart

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Deuteronomy 14:25
…24"If the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the LORD your God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the LORD your God blesses you, 25then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26"You may spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen, or sheep, or wine, or strong drink, or whatever your heart desires; and there you shall eat in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice, you and your household.…

There where many things going on in the temple that he was trying to correct.
The money changers taking advantage of the people.
The distraction to the people trying to worship.
The fact gentlles were not able to go into the inner chamber of the sanctuary