Duplicating Original 7.62x54r Loads with Lead?

Hello,

I've been thinking about casting for my favorite Mosin-Nagant for a while.

I will want to run the original full-power load. I think I can do this without leading; or if I do get leading, I can use gas checks.

This Mosin slugs to 0.309, coning down toward the muzzle. I'm thinking a 0.311 mold? Or would you go 0.312 since it's larger near the chamber end?

What I would like to find is a 212grn round nose bullet mold that has the lube grooves near the base so that I can keep them in the case neck. I'm just not a fan of exposed lube grooves.

I might also tumble lube in Alox, sort of double up, if needed.

My goal load will send a 212grn bullet at about 2100fps.

Any thoughts?

Thank you,

Josh

Lee makes a .309" 200gr mold and Lyman makes a 200gr mold in .311" and another in .314" (#311299 and #314299). To go heavier may require a custom mold. I have all three of the molds I listed and they work very fine in my Lee-Enfields, Mosin-Nagant 44 and my Arisaka Type 99 which are all .31 caliber rifles. With these three molds and with most sizing dies you can cover a range of bullet diameters from .308 right up to .314".

As long as you have a good high-speed lube you should be able to make 2100fps with those bullets.

I just reloaded 100 cartridges of the 7.62x54R today. Its bore is wider than yours by a bit. My M44 rattles .311" bullets into a 12" group at hundred but when I use the .314" bullets the groups shrink down to less than 3" and at times will provide tighter groups when everything comes together on the range.

Fifty were loaded with 35gr of Hogdgon 380 with a Lyman 314299 sized at .314". It should give me 2100fps with the LEE Reduction calculator.

Another 50 were reloaded with a 165gr bullet sized to .314" as well. The 165gr mold is a Lyman 323470 sized down to .314" from its original .323". It handled the resizing because its Louverin Design with all of its lube groves filled when gave up plenty of lubrication for the .009" resizing. Its powder load (32 gr of Hogdgon's BL(c)-2 and bullet weight replicate a standard 32 Winchester Special factory load.

decent start for load data?

I have used the lyman 200gr .311 in my mosins.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...89#post3998589

I load mine light. 20 grains of IMR 4895 under the Lee .312 leemented out to .314 and gas checked and run through a .314 sizing die.

My bore slugged at .312 and the .314 tightened things up a lot. No long range reports of iron sights and good accuracy as my eyes are simply not up to the task. But the last time I shot them it was putting 5 in a coffee cup at 50 which IMO is minute of deer and good enough for a rifle older than I am. I have 2, a 43 and a 44, both look awesome, but have some battle scars. Wish they could talk.

Hi. I would go .312 or a smeck bigger. 185 Lee has been my go to in mosins. 160 Lee TL is the next best. I have no croney so I can only guess and look at the book for velocity. Been up to 42gr 4895 with 33gr to 35gr the best loads, I have a few mosins what works in one may not work in another. Love mosins and their history, they were made for a long time and can be found from gutter pipe to fine condition. It was once said the Mosin faught against itself and won evertime.
In short your proof will be down range, and leading may or not happen.
Be well

Given the NOE 314299 or the Lyman 314299 cast of a good alloy with GCs and a good lube getting 2100 fps out of a longer barreled MN without leading will be easy. Getting 2100 fps with the best accuracy will be hard. It can be done though with useable accuracy at least equal to milsurp accuracy.

Larry Gibson

"It was once said the Mosin faught against itself and won evertime. "

The Finns have only one ethnic joke.

"How do you tell the difference between a Russian and a Finn?..... You can't, but a Finn can at 200 yards over open sights in a driving Blizzard."

I have loaded several types of Boolits all powder Coated, and sized to fit the bores of each of my M N's.
I can hit a 24" gong at 600 yards with them with the scoped rifles.
I will have to find my loading data, but mostly I am now using reloader 7 for all cast loads.
28 grains seems to ring a bell.
No pun intended.

I did a qiick check of my Data.
28.0 is the starting load on the heavier boolits.
The best accuracy was the Lee 155 gr GC powder coated at 100 yards.
But I have good results with the NOE 198 Spirepoint GC powdercoated and the equilivent in NOE to the 316-299 202 gr at up to 33 + gr sized to fit the bore .

Like Larry said. Good luck. You are going to hit right about 2000fps and the groups are going to get very big very fast. Not saying it can't be done, but I wish you every bit of luck you can get. The 9.5" twist is the limiting factor.

You can get higher Volocities if you use a Super hard lead alloys to prevent or Lessen the bullet from stripping off the rifling.
But at the higher volocities, comes the higher Pressures.
The lead , even with a Gas Check, is limited to how much pressure it can take before starting to deform and that effects accuracy.
The higher volocities and pressure may give you distance.
But if you cant keep the bullet going straight , then you are not going to have accuracy.
So why have a Hard Hitting , Flatter shooting bullet, if it wont stay on target. It is still a Miss.

Did anyone ask Why, someone would want to duplicate the Factory or military loads in this round with lead ?

I like my 215gr running at 1950fps. It shoots right at 1.5" at 100yds and that is a 10 shot group not a 3 shot like everyone likes to show. After that things start to go south FAST. I have shoot them with straight linotype and it made no difference. It is the fast twist. I know some here don't believe in Larry's RPM threshold but what else would it be? It seems that everyone hits a wall around the 2000fps mark in the 30 cal. with 10 twist.

If I want to shoot faster, I load up 174gr HPBT Sierra Matchkings and shoot them at 2400fps out to 1000 yards.

I have a 311331 that pretty much covers what you want to do. It works fine with the standard Russian throat.

NOE specs are .311 on the bands with a .301 nose, 214 grains for the GC version with WW. Magnum or hard ball alloy would get you a fatter, lighter boolit meeting your specs.

i bought an NOE 311284 to try in D throated Finn barrels. I'm not concerned with the exposed lube grooves there.

Thank you gents.

What is this super-hard alloy?

Regards,

Josh

Not exactly a Mosin Load here: I gave a Lee 309-170 mold a try in my Rem 700. Sized to .309 and tumbled generously in Alox. I pushed to 2000-2100fps without any issue so far and great groups on paper. I used Lyman #2 which is softer than Linotype or Super Hard. I figure that sizing to .311 with Alox, yours may have similar success.

shoe

Thank you sir.

I don't know what you expect for accuracy.
My goal for any surplus rifle with cast loads is
Best accuracy , least expensive trouble free alloy.
Does not lead up the barrel...
Accuracy is measured by shooting either off the bench or prone supported. Standard if I can put 80% or better into the SR1 10 ring the rifle and load are most likely shooting better than I can place them.

My mosin is .312"+ factory ammo what ever it is surplus to norma is about 8moa on a good day.
314299 sized to 314" gas checked,2500 lube and H4895 at 28 grains is about as fast as I can push then and still have about 4moa.
I have had slightly better accuracy with 16 grains of 2400 but they are about 1500fps...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josh Smith

Thank you gents.

What is this super-hard alloy?

Regards,

Josh

---

You can heat treat CB's cast of WW's in an oven to equal or exceed the BHN of linotype: Google it (Dennis Marshall has written extensively about it) or search this site. Trust me, the method produces very hard CB's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mac1911

I don't know what you expect for accuracy.
My goal for any surplus rifle with cast loads is
Best accuracy , least expensive trouble free alloy.
Does not lead up the barrel...
Accuracy is measured by shooting either off the bench or prone supported. Standard if I can put 80% or better into the SR1 10 ring the rifle and load are most likely shooting better than I can place them.

My mosin is .312"+ factory ammo what ever it is surplus to norma is about 8moa on a good day.
314299 sized to 314" gas checked,2500 lube and H4895 at 28 grains is about as fast as I can push then and still have about 4moa.
I have had slightly better accuracy with 16 grains of 2400 but they are about 1500fps...

---

My accuracy requirements are the same I ask for jacketed: MOA or slightly better for that weight boolit at its prescribed velocity.

Regards,

Josh