.22-250 from .308 ... SURPRISE!

I managed to form .222 Rem from .223 /5.56 brass without too much problem; so I decided I'd make some .22-250 brass from .308 Win. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise! It looks like it takes more than just a file trim die for the .22-250. In fact, after reading the related posts here I realized RCBS makes a die set to make the brass from .308 or 06 brass which is quite expensive and well beyond my needs anyway. Here is my question. Can .22-250 brass be made from .308 using dies such as the 7 -08 and .250 Savage to bring the shoulder back and neck down in a series of stages? Has anyone done this with any degree of success? I see a huge amount of time could be tied up in this; I'm just trying to see if it can be done at all. I wound up placing a .308 case in the rockchunker and turning the file trim die in 1/8 turn increments and sizing at each increment to bring the neck and shoulder down and back and still ruined about 50% of the cases by having the neck collapse. Was an eye-opening experience...

If you can make them I believe that you will have to turn necks on them or you will trouble chambering the neck and higher pressures.

Sure you can make those cases with a collection of miscellaneous dies.
I have a set of the RCBS dies that you mention too. They come up on Ebay from time to time and sell for a low of about $45 (rarely) to about $65 or more.
One of the last steps is to ream the necks with a reamer die at the .250 Savage stage.

There are many intermediate dies that you could use. I will list some that I have that can be used if you sequence the right dies ahead or behind them.
To make a case as short as the 22-250 some times you might have to buy a Lee die body ($13) and cut it off.

.357 Automag
7.9x33 Kurz
Several different dies in the Remington BR family like the 7mm BR and BR based wildcats
7mm-08
.260 Rem
6.5X250 Savage (a hard to find wildcat)
.25 Souper (.25X.308)
.250 Savage form die set consists of a #1 form, #2 Form, Reamer, reamer die, .250 Savage trim die. Then you have to add the 22-250 trim die and 22-250 FL die set.
6mm Rem International

The dies above can be used if you have them or run into them. They are all what I call "short fat dies" and are useful for the initial forming of many cartridges.
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Originally Posted by wmitty

I managed to form .222 Rem from .223 /5.56 brass without too much problem; so I decided I'd make some .22-250 brass from .308 Win. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise! It looks like it takes more than just a file trim die for the .22-250. In fact, after reading the related posts here I realized RCBS makes a die set to make the brass from .308 or 06 brass which is quite expensive and well beyond my needs anyway. Here is my question. Can .22-250 brass be made from .308 using dies such as the 7 -08 and .250 Savage to bring the shoulder back and neck down in a series of stages? Has anyone done this with any degree of success? I see a huge amount of time could be tied up in this; I'm just trying to see if it can be done at all. I wound up placing a .308 case in the rockchunker and turning the file trim die in 1/8 turn increments and sizing at each increment to bring the neck and shoulder down and back and still ruined about 50% of the cases by having the neck collapse. Was an eye-opening experience...

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Wmitty

Yes,
you can form 22-250 from 308 cases, takes a little work, but can form some good brass,
you have to take the case down in steps, ie,
308 to 7mm cal,
this forms a smaller and longer neck,
inside neck ream,
this removes the excess brass from the shoulder/neck area, that is moved into the these areas,
then step down to 6.5 cal,
neck ream again,
this removes the excess brass from the shoulder brass/neck area, that is moved into these areas,
step down to 257/243 cal,
neck ream again,
this removes the excess brass from the shoulder brass/neck area, that is moved into these areas,
then final form to 22-250,
then neck ream/outside turn the neck diameter to clean up the excess brass moved into the neck,
needed for your rifle.
You should anneal the final brass, to normalize the brass, before using.

The reason for the neck reaming during each step, is you are moving the brass shoulder area of the donor case,
into the shoulder/neck of the 22-250 case, during the forming process,
this brass from the shoulder area is thicker, you can and will have donuts formed at the shoulder/neck junction,
which you do not want, which causes major reloading and pressure problems down the road.

To get an Idea of what I am talking about,
just take a standard 308 case and a 22-250 case and compare side by side,
and you can see where the the neck sits on the 308 case,
to see just how much thicker the shoulder brass is (308),
take a case and file/grind down, then measure the thickness of the donor case.

HTH,

Tia,
Don

I have made 243 from 308 and it takes a solid press to do it in one step. necks will thicken necking down. necks will harden working them this much. Doing it in several steps helps and it may take one or more annealings also. Its a lot of work for brass that's readily available in good quality. The original wildcat 22-250 cartridges were formed fro 250 savage and probably 308. Your also looking at a lot to trim from the case at some point. 30-06 will be even more trimming and neck turning reaming as the new neck will be formed fro body of the 06. Section a case and measure wall thickness from neck to shoulder to case head it gets thicker as you move up and the larger diameter being sized down means more brass is in the neck shoulder area. I believe on 30-06 I would cut close to length and expand up to a straight walled case and ream first step to remove most of the brass leaving a couple thousandths to true up at the end. This will make the correct shoulder thickness ( or close to it) and make forming easier.

Long long ago, before surplus 308 and before the 22-250 was a factory round, enthusiasts made 22-250 and everything else with an '06 head out of surplus 30-06. 6 cents a pound at the WW2 surplus store.

When I was in high school (over 50 years ago), WW2 and Korea vets owned M1 Garands and got surplus 30-06 ball ammo for next to free from DCM because they shot in matches. In our rural area there was only one TV station, and that often broadcast snow. Winters were long and those vets formed 30-06 brass down to everything that had a .473" case head. 22-250 was more problematic because the parent case is thinner than 30-06 (and 308). Inside neck reaming was needed and powder charges had to be reduced. Those guys had much more time than money, and their reloading benches were a refuge from boredom.

Dad has a 250 Savage Lyman FL die in with the 22-250 Pacific set . I know that many times he crushed 308 necks using LC68 . He has a set of 243 Pacific Durachrome dies also and to my knowledge has never had or shot with anyone that had a 243 .
I believe that in the early 70s when he got the Mark X 22-250 that probably be used the 243 FL to form the neck out of the equation for the 250 Savage FL using both without the decapping pin then the 22-250 FL sans decapping pin . He then trimmed and reamed with the Herters case trimmer and a 22 cal reamer pilot , then resized , decapped and fit checked . Reamed the primer pockets and loaded them up . For whatever reason that rifle even now is capable of 200yd gophers if the shooter is up to it .

Why don't you try 243 Rem to form your 22-250, annel neck and,trim and full length size with your 22-250 dies.
Sprink

I applaud your effort. I like to be able to make what I need from what I have. Just a question were you aware that Midway lists brass at $0.50 and $0.52?

sprinkintime: I've had good luck reforming .243 brass to .22-250; it's about the easiest way to form it from an existing case other than .250 Sav. that I'm aware of; but that brass is unobtainium around here. I should have mentioned that I was attempting to make use of some 7.62 x 51 brass I'd bought years ago as j-bullet reloads which I broke down into components. Many split necks resulted when I began trying to use the brass, so I annealed it. I was trying to make use of the cases which had not split too deep for the shorter .22-250 case.

dbosman: I'm aware of the new brass prices; and I'm appalled! I guess memories of 100 pieces of new brass for 19.95 prevent me from jumping up and buying new brass at current inflated prices. It's a sign of being 64 years old.

try running the 308 cases into a 300 savage die first then trimming and working from there.
you should be able to turn the 300 necks into the shoulder, then neck down to 250 savage.
then full length size and trim to the 22-250 from there.

rfr - thanks for the tip; I happen to have a .300 Savage die set; I'll give it a try.

I've made a pile of 308 from 30-06 (I actually wanted the thicker necks). One pass on a rock chucker... shouldn't be any issue. I just hit them on a belt sander to get the length close before I started.

Attachment 189520

Thanks for the tutorial guys. IMO too much work when correct brass is available at good prices- especially Privi. Time is worth more than money to me.
Best, Thomas.