Loading for >45 LC conversion in a .44 Pietta 1858

Gentlemen,

I acquired a .44 Pietta 1858 New Army a while back that cane with a conversion cylinder. Though I'd give it a try and found out that Cowboy rounds are approx. 35.00 a box. Right.

Couple questions here:

Haven't slugged the barrel or throats yet, but what am I going to encounter if I set a typical .452 JRN 230g on top of 5.0g of 700x and try firing out of a barrel that typically shoots .430 RN cast soft lead? A hand held pipe bomb?

The little info sent w/ the cylinder specifies 'Cowboy action rounds only". The loading data above was from the IMR site for cowboy action, but the bullet was specified as cast RNFP 230 gr. I'm planning to use basically modern powder under a modern projectile in a replica from 150+ years ago.
Am I a candidate for idiot of the year?

Mort

Hi Mort,
I don't own a conversion cylinder or have experience with one, but :
Get a copy of the owners manual. It should be available online. It may specify "CAS loads only". If not, it's probably wise to hold it to that level anyway.
Diameter-wise, I don't see an issue. 44 C&B revolvers call for .450, not .430 and .452 isn't that big of a thing.
More importantly, I'd stick to lead bullets - that barrel was not made for jacketed bullets.
YMMV

Regards

Russ

If the throats are typical, .448" ~ .450" they can be reamed to .452" ~ .454" to accomodate your CAS loads. Slug the barrel and see if the slug will go into the cylinder throats when it comes out of the barrel. If it doesn't, the cylinder could be improved on.

Thanks Russ.

Like I said, IO haven't slugged either the barrel or the throats, but I do cast the .430 RN for shooting black powder.

What I've noticed is that when I set the boolit into the throat with the setting handle, often there is a hair-sized ring cot from the edges.

I'm concerned with the jacketed bullet and the barrel.

I need to do like you suggested and get a copy of the manual, and then slug the barrel and throats.

Truth

Truth, DO NOT shoot jacketed, soft lead only.

Your only supposed to use lead in the conversions. I have been messing with loads for a conversion. Same '44' cal 1858. No idea why they still say 44, a box of RB at the local shop says 44 cal, 452 dia.

Maybe the throats vary alot, I bought one direct from Taylor and co, 5 of the throats take a .452 with no problems, one is a bit tight, but not 44 cal tight.

I was trying different powders other day to find one I like. Not really satisfied with any. Often cant get close to what the book says or large velocity swings. Am using the Lee 230gr TL FN bullet. Might try a 250, maybe 230 is just not heavy enough. All loads used same bullet, .452 sized. The velocity swings are the powder, as Im using a jewelers scale to .01 gr.

6.5 gr trailboss 683-719fps, Avg 700 ES 35.68fps.
7.4gr Unique 754-791fps, Avg 776 ES 36.99fps
8.2gr unique 799-830fps, Avg 817,ES 30.88fps
9.0gr Unique 833-980fps, Avg 905,ES 147.3
6.1gr titegroup way slow, only one out of 3 would read over the chrony it was 646fps
8.2gr 800x 681-746fps, Avg 722, ES 64.4fps

I know unique is not supposed to be position sensitive, but the unique loads w low spread were done when tilting the gun up between shots. Just shooting it and it jumped to 147fps swing for 3 rounds. You could feel and hear the difference between them. Titegroup in small amounts works great in my 44 mag for subsonic 290gr. But not so good in the 45 colt. And was a scary small amount in a 45 colt at the standard pressure loads.

Powders on the shelf have not tried yet are True blue, hoping it gives better results, bullseye, universal, green dot. There are standard pressure loads in the Lee book for Blue dot, but I have not known it to work well in such a low pressure environment. I used it before in 45colt and ended up with alot of unburned powder. They also listed a load for 2400. Would it give more consistent results?

I typically shoot soft lead (never jacketed!) boolits in my conversion cylinders, .452-.454" RN. You want to limit your velocity to around 800fps to keep pressures down and safe. Another powder you may want to try is American Select.

I use the 5 shot howell conversion in the Pietta 1858.
I have had about 6 Pietta 1858's and all the barrels have been .451
The Howell cylinders for mine are .452
Best groupings have been with 200gr. and 250gr. lees sized .452
with HP-38 and Win. 231 powder
No idea of volocity, no Chrono right now, but with the 200gr. it makes one hole groups
@ 10yds. and 255gr. is close.
Like already stated do NOT use jacketed bullets.

Thanks to all. I was concerned that the jacketed bullets could indeed give a problem.

The loads I plan to keep very light, but if that barrel slugs to .450 and the jacketed bullets are a true .452, the potential for failure sounds too high.

Truth

Still haven't actually slugged, but the manual online specs the barrel dia. @ .454.

Truth

The .452 230g JRN fall straight through the cylinders.

The .44 cowboy action mould I have drops .451. From the warnings some of you guys have offered, I think it's much safer using my own cast Boolits rather than these factory jacketed ones.

Thanks to all for their help.

Truth

I had an 1858 Remington years ago. I got a conversion cylinder for it back in 1999. I used lead .452 230 gain Lead Round Nose and the gun shot a foot high at 30 feet. I tried some 255 grain Lee RNFPs and they shot about 18 inches high at that distance. Both of these with Six grains of Unique. Thinking that I needed a lighter boolit I picked up some 165 grain SWC's and ran them through my Corbin Swage machine and converted them into .454 165 gr HBRN slugs. Same load of unique and they hit about three inches high at 30 feet. I tried to fit Schofield brass in the conversion cylinder, but the rims were to big. So I trimmed some Nickeled .45 Colt brass back to Scofield length and reduced the Unique to 5 grains. Not quite three inches high now. Then I loaded the cases with Black Powder and fired those boolits and got them back to three inches high again. Then I decided to let well enough alone and used them as is from that point on. I sometimes wonder if a round ball at .452 loaded in the case with a BP lubed felt wad would have worked better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by truthisdiscovered

The .452 230g JRN fall straight through the cylinders.

The .44 cowboy action mould I have drops .451. From the warnings some of you guys have offered, I think it's much safer using my own cast Boolits rather than these factory jacketed ones.

Thanks to all for their help.

Truth

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The warning with jacketed bullets is not with the cylinder it is with the firearm.
The steel used to make a black powder revolver is softer then used for a standard revolver.
Also the pressures increase with jacketed bullets.

I have a Uberti 1858 Remington with a R&D .45 Colt conversion cylinder. I shoot a 255 gr soft lead bullet sized to .454 over 34 grs of Goex 3F. Mine is as accurate as ANY handgun that I have ever shot bar none. I have shot mine quite a bit, certainly more than 1000 rds. and it functions flawlessly. I know that everyone wants a smokeless load, but you might want to try blackpowder. Just sayin'.

Attachment 188605
I use Schofield Brass and loads in My Pietta 1860's. (Only 5 shot--so I don't have to trim cases or narrow heads.) 4.5 grains of ww-231 under an RCBS 230 grain CM boolit. I tried some other stuff but that works well. Nothing I have tried shoots to point of aim, but the above load allows me to hold 6 o'clock at 50 feet. (The boolits in the pict are some 456-401's--an antique design that is a pain to cast and load and did not work well.)