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Im looking to buy a couple black powder kits. One rifle and one cap and pall pistol. The problem is that i want to be able to shoot the same ball out of both. The problem is that im having trouble findidng compatible firearms. Id be willing to buy a different barrel for the rifle or revolver (whichever is cheaper) to achive compatability. Any help would be nice.
Look at the Lyman Great Plains rifle and pistol. Both are available in .50 & .54 caliber.
I would really like a revolver to go with the rifle.
In rifle and revolver, your chances are slim to none of using the same size ball. A revolver does not use a patch like a rifle does. Now you could force a large ball down the barrel(with a mallet) of a rifle but accuracy will likely be not so good. Your other option would be to have a custom barrel made or rebore a barrel to the size you want. Not super expensive but not cheap either. Best option would just be to get a rifle and revolver and both sizes of balls, just a matter of keeping them separate.
A 44 cal revolver takes anywhere from a .451-.457 ball and the 45 rifle takes a .440-.445 ball. 36 caliber takes a .375-.380 for revolver and .350 for the rifle. Now you could actually get a 36 cal revolver and a .38 caliber rifle but there is no garrauntee they will be able to use the same ball and 38 is hard to come buy so it won't be cheap either.
I have a .31 caliber cap and ball revolver that takes the same size balls as my .32 caliber percussion rifle. Don't know if they are available as kits, though.
two ways to go a .44 pistol then a .45 rifle with the barrel opened up to take the .451 ball it would be a .46 then. bob hoyt has done a few of the rifles. the other is a .36 pistol and a .36 rifle opened up to take the same .375 ball. which would make it a .38 rifle. I have 2 old rifles that are going that route.
another way a .36 pistol bored to take a .395 ball then you would use a .40 cal. rifle.
I have seen second model dragons bored to take a .490 ball. thn it would match a .50 cal. rifle.
I've actually wondered if a .40 cal rifle would accept a .380" ball with a thick patch. That would be about the only way to get a kit and not have to go custom if it would work well enough. But I fear that is asking a bit much...
Not a kit but an Uberti Remington revolving carbine uses a .454" ball...
I have heard of people using a .380 ball in the 40 and work fine. I have laso heard people swear that the .380 ball shoots better in the 36 revolver. I have tried neither.
I've read many accounts of match shooters pereferring a larger ball in a cap n ball gun. The theory seems to be that the bearing surface being larger gives more for the rifling to grab, the additional friction adds slightly to the velocity by adding a little bit of pressure and retarding the time of movement of the projectile.
You could try the plastic sabots that use .45 in the 50 caliber rifle. I don't know how good they will grip the ball, will try some this afternoon.
It isn't just how well the sabot will grip the ball but you need the right combination of size of sabot and size of bal. Also the slower twist guns have a more difficult time shooting sabots acurately.
There are several people on this forum and/or on the 1858 Remington forum who use a 45 caliber Lee REAL bullet in their 44 percussion revolvers. I know you said "ball" but that one is a direct cross-over from rifle to revolving pistol. The 44 revolver is a 45, so there is at least that one 45 bullet that'll sort of work OK in both the 45 rifle and the 44 revolver.
.380" ball is the only size ball I use in all my 36 caliber revolvers. I don't have a 40 cal rifle, but I have no doubt that a patched .380 ball could be made to work fine in a 40 cal rifle. Also it is possible to use a ball without a patch, so long as it fits the groove diameter. There are several threads on this loading method on this forum. Therefore using an oversized ball for the revolver (which works fine) would allow the use of that same ball, naked, in a rifle. A .380 or .385" ball in a 38 rifle and 36 revolver, and a .457" or .460" ball in a 45 rifle and a 44 revolver. You'll have to search for the odd size ball molds, but they're out there.
Regarding sabots in slow twist rifles: if the twist is appropriate for the projectile, and the sabot fits well, it will work fine. Don't conflate the use of sabots with the use of longer, heavier bullets. That's two different things. Also, there are sabots designed for round ball.
I've had a muzzleloading rifle, and a number of percussion revolvers, for years. The idea of using the same round ball in both has never occurred to me. That's because it doesn't matter. If I were to decide to set myself up as you describe, then I'd have to cut out nearly all of the loads I currently use, because I use mostly conicals in my revolvers lately. I still use some round ball, but not nearly as much as I use conicals. I rarely have both the rifle and a percussion revolver out at the same time, so why would I bother to "pair" them for only those rare occasions? Since I've been using paper cartridges for the revolvers anyway, and those cartridges take from between one fifth to about one half the powder charge that the rifle takes, who cares if the projectile is also different?
Anyway, you haven't said why you want to do this, how you use your two different guns, or how you imagine using them. Typically, if I'm out shooting with the rifle, I may take up to about ten shots at about 100 yards and that's it. If I'm out with a revolver. I may take up to 100 shots or more, at ten to twenty to thirty yards. That's two different kinds of shooting, and so, the way I see it, by using the same ammunition you're limiting your use of at least one of the two weapons all the time, just for those rare occasions when you're maybe using both weapons together.
In summary; while it would be quaint to have both handgun and rifle using the same ball, you'll not want to limit yourself to ball, AND, depending on how you actually use the two different weapons, it probably doesn't matter most of the time anyway.
Black powder weapons can be shipped to your door, so in this case the internet can be your friend. You can buy the rifle kit from vendor A and the revolver kit from vendor B.
OB
traditions hawken woodsman & their trapper or kentucky would do nicely.
They work, not as good as .45 slugs though. My .50 is a CVA with 1/48 twist.Quote:
Originally Posted by rond
Had a ringed .36 rifle an internet crook sold me as having a good bore, recut to .46.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swsws1
Shoots .453 ball (my mold says .451 but the balls fall out at .453) so the six guns use the same.