What load data do I follow for 7.62x39 & 7.62x54? Hornady Handbook or Hodgdon site?

Hey guys,

I am confused. The reloading data is vastly different for both 7.62x39 and 7.62x54 when I refer to my Hornady Handbook of cartridge reloading or the Hodgdon website. For both cartridges, I will obviously be using Hodgdon powder; H4198 for 7.62x39 and H4895 for 7.62x54. I have compared loads that yield similar fps numbers, and you will see the start or intermediate ends, and the "max" loads differ considerably from the two reloading sources.

7.62x39 150 grain SP (H4198)

From Hodgdon Website:

Start load: 22.5 grains for 1947 fps and 33,600 CUP
Max load: 24.5 grains for 2,122 fps and 39,800 CUP (This would not be permitted by Hornady book below)


From Hornady Handbook:

Intermediate load: 20.2 grains for 1900 fps
Top "redline" load: 22.9 grains for 2100 fps (much lower max powder charge than Hodgdon website above)

7.62x54 180 grain SFT SCIR (H4895)
(I plan to use a 180 grain soft point...dunno what the SFT SCIR is or if it is vastly different)


From Hodgdon Website:

Start load: 42.0 grains for 2482 fps and 40,900 CUP
Max load: 45.4 grains for 2,618 fps and 45,800 CUP (This would not be permitted by Hornady book below)

From Hornady Handbook:

High intermediate load: 40.6 grains for 2400 fps
Top "redline" load: 42.8 grains for 2500 fps (much lower max powder charge than Hodgdon website above)

Given the big discrepancies in powder charges and resulting fps from the two reloading sources, what should I follow for lower starting loads and max loads to work up to? Seems as though Hornady is very cautious, whereas Hodgdon is more daring? Or, since it is Hodgdon powder, should I assume they are the better source?

i would start with the lowest listed load and work up till i found a accurate load or started having high pressure issues.

discrepencies like this are probably caused by the two different companies using different cases, primers, and different batches of powder, or even having different pressure standards.

this is why it is important to cross reference load data.

Always start with the start load. That is why it is called that. Max should be called "never under pain of death ever exceed this, no excuses!"

It means that is as far up as you can safely go, and you can not START there, you start at start and work up, slowly, with lots of notes.

It has been my experience that mostly max loads are considerable less accurate than start.

Hang on, it can be a rocky ride, especially at first.

Hodgdon has done much pressure testing so I would call them and ask if these cartridges have been tested lately. You did not state if your Hornady book is brand new or 10 years old.
This situation is one reason I check several sources and call if necessary. The folks at the powder and bullet companies have always been very helpful and I have had some long conversations with them and learned much.

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Originally Posted by leadman

Hodgdon has done much pressure testing so I would call them and ask if these cartridges have been tested lately. You did not state if your Hornady book is brand new or 10 years old.
This situation is one reason I check several sources and call if necessary. The folks at the powder and bullet companies have always been very helpful and I have had some long conversations with them and learned much.

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My Hornady book is the 9th edition, published in 2012.

I will heed everyone's suggestions: call the companies for advice, start low, and work upward while looking for over-pressure signs.

Thank you everyone!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mojomandan

Hey guys,

I am confused. The reloading data is vastly different for both 7.62x39 and 7.62x54 when I refer to my Hornady Handbook of cartridge reloading or the Hodgdon website.

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Common problem I've heard from various reloaders over the years.
I refer to it as biblical syndrome. It's a reference to someone who makes reading and understanding the bible too difficult, when it's not necessary to over think it.
That being said, keep it simple. Pick one manual and follow it. As you gain experience, peruse other manuals for more information. The most important thing, is to use one set of load data and don't interchange them with others.

There are errors in manuals printed by the powder companies. The one I posted about a few years back was on an IMR paperback manual. It had an excessive charge for the 30-30 Win.
My friend who should have known better loaded the listed max load only. While it did not blow up it did peen the breech face firing pin hole almost shut in an older H&R combo gun, 30-30 /20ga. There was an additional .006" case expansion over a normal load.
This is why I recommend checking several sources with one from the powder manufacturer included.

And , I would not be using anything BUT the starting load in any CONVERTED CASES.
Heck, I wouldn't even be using " J " bullets in a Berdan to Boxer Converted Case.
Just a word to the wise, from 40 years of experience.
I play it safe, no matter what " Lefty " or "Three Finger Bob" says on Youtube.

your not looking at the whole picture your only seeing the velocity and top load.
that's how the 250-3,000 got to be so popular when it was actually designed with a 100gr bullet at a more sedate velocity.

you need to look at everything the case and primer are a huge influence on what is going on here, as well as the type [brand] of bullet that is being used.
the brisance level,case capacity [oal/powder volume], and engraving pressure, all influence how a load is put together and how it tests out pressure wise.

don't just look at things and think hey this book say's I can put two more grains in here.

In my experience, hornady data has been on the safe/low side. Still buy and own their manuals though.

Hi guys,

Yes, as I had mentioned...I will start on the low end in the more conservative Hornady manual and work up.

Thanks!!

This is why I say to keep your loads for converted cases to the Lowest J bullet load, and even better, Cast Bullet loads Only.
I cut away three cases.
The first is an S&B Boxer primed, the second is a Converted Brass case, and the third is a Chinese Berdan case.
You can see that after converting, the middle case Web is much thinner than the other two.
Steel Cases are even thinner, plus Berdan cases already have two holes in the Base web that weakens them further.

Wow, nicely illustrated! I see your point.

There are huge variables in groove diameters in these calibers. Also some data was shot using .308 bullets in .311 (or larger) barrels for goodness sake! Another source used a .308 pressure gun with .308 bullets.

Throats in Finn rifles ( or captured) are another factor. Barrel length yet another.

My advice is to read the fine print and load carefully.

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Originally Posted by LAGS

....Just a word to the wise, from 40 years of experience. I play it safe, no matter what " Lefty " or "Three Finger Bob" says on Youtube.

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Truth!!!

The Hornady manual is on the conservative side but as the other guys pointed out what's important is the start loads. I use Hornady .312" bullets in my Mosin Nagants so I like using their data. They used a M39 Finn to compile there results and so do I, 3 of them in fact and one 91-30.

I keep my loads on the soft to mid range. My 174gr RN shoots 2500f/s My original 150gr SP load was also 2500f/s, it was intended to be light for my then young son. His new load is probably still no more than 2600.

All three rifles have deer kills. One was laser and GPS ranged at 263 yards. 150gr Hornady .312" SP. 15 year old boy. :)

Motor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Motor

The Hornady manual is on the conservative side but as the other guys pointed out what's important is the start loads. I use Hornady .312" bullets in my Mosin Nagants so I like using their data. They used a M39 Finn to compile there results and so do I, 3 of them in fact and one 91-30.

I keep my loads on the soft to mid range. My 174gr RN shoots 2500f/s My original 150gr SP load was also 2500f/s, it was intended to be light for my then young son. His new load is probably still no more than 2600.

All three rifles have deer kills. One was laser and GPS ranged at 263 yards. 150gr Hornady .312" SP. 15 year old boy. :)

Motor

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You consider 2500 to 2600 fps as soft to moderate? In my Hornady book, those are at the max loads, or even above!

I have Hornady 8th Edition. I'm sure the 9th has the same data. 2600 is max with the 174gr and 2800 is max with the 150gr. So yes I concider my loads soft to moderate.

How does that compare to Hodgdon's data ?????

Besides, what does this have to do with CB Loads / Military Rifles (Cast Bullet Loads in Military Rifles) ??

Motor

This thread pertains to reloading for military rifles. And, the same questions can be asked whether using cast boolits, or mass-produced ones, so I believe it belongs here in this forum.

I'm sorry. I'm not one to say where to post. There is a "Military Rifle" thread too though.

I've had very good success loading for my Mosin Nagants. In fact I've only ever bought surplus ammo once.

I shoot a lot more cast boolits from them than anything else. I have 2 basic loads and both use the Lee 160gr 2R TL. One is gas checked and shoots 1850f/s and the other is un-checked and shoots 1075f/s. About a year ago I started to powder coat. That change did not change my loads although it is allowing me to use a little softer alloy for the super sonic load.

Motor