.685" long derimed 22lr shells are they too short for 55 grain .224 jackets?

Hey Guys,
I have been thinking about getting into swageing .224 bullets from 22 lr jackets. Last week I was playing in the shop and made a deriming die (eventually I would like to build all the dies). The jackets I am getting from the die are .220"-.221" O.D. and .685"-.687" long. I am using Remington brand cases that were given to me. My punch measures .195"
Are these long enough to make 55 grain .224 bullets? If these are not long enough would making the punch larger cause the cases to be appreciably longer?

58.84 gr for core dia. and max length given,based on my crude home made spread sheet.
If I'm wrong, others will check and correct me.
Bill

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Originally Posted by jmsj

Hey Guys,
I have been thinking about getting into swageing .224 bullets from 22 lr jackets. Last week I was playing in the shop and made a deriming die (eventually I would like to build all the dies). The jackets I am getting from the die are .220"-.221" O.D. and .685"-.687" long. I am using Remington brand cases that were given to me. My punch measures .195"
Are these long enough to make 55 grain .224 bullets? If these are not long enough would making the punch larger cause the cases to be appreciably longer?

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It should work fine, but I can't think of any good way of lengthening those jackets without the risk of producing reduced consistency. If you want to go heavier, try to find something like CCI Stinger jackets, which are longer than the standard .22LR. I think the plating is nickel, and don't believe it would do any harm.

Thanks Guys for the replies.
I have read were people were getting jacket lengths of .705" to .730". My .685"-.687" had me a little concerned that they would be too short for 55 grainers.
As I am just starting out in this venture, any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Currently I have the start of a core swage die in the lathe.
Thanks, jmsj

I got the other problem dies and no press!

That short will probably get you a SP instead of a HP bullet. I like to keep mine at .700-.710" . You could also make them into 52gr bullet instead. Or even 50gr.:bigsmyl2:

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Originally Posted by Gunnut 45/454

That short will probably get you a SP instead of a HP bullet. I like to keep mine at .700-.710" . You could also make them into 52gr bullet instead. Or even 50gr.:bigsmyl2:

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Thanks for the reply,
Do you happen to know if the shorter .685" length is common with Remington cases or if this is could be an issue with my homemade deriming die?
Thanks, jmsj

Possibly some dies actually draw the sides of the case thinner, and therefore longer. I would feel surer of consistency if they simply derimmed, and left the case body the thickness it was.

I am certain the jackets will work just fine for bullet weights from 50-55 grains. Your shorter length could have to do with maybe the base being flat vs. rounded or a larger diameter of .221 vs. a smaller .219 but it is still a 22lr brass jacket and should work just as well as the 22lr jackets everyone else here makes bullets with.

As to how heavy a bullet it will make depends on a couple factors..... how large of meplat, a lead tip or hollow point/open tip, ogive s#, and there will even be a slight difference in weight depending on how pure the lead alloy core is.

Go for it!

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

I just went down and measured a whole bunch of derimmed jackets ready for loading.

Remington----------------- .705 to .715
Winchester-----------------.705 to .715
CCI ------------------------ .709 to .717
Federal-------------------- .720 to .730
These were all derimmed using RCE's derim dies

I have another several thousand mixed head stamp. They were derimmed using a die I bought online and I don't know who manufactured it. This mixed batch measures .685, +/- about .010. These jackets still have a ring very near the base. The difference in length I believe is the relationship of the punch diameter vs the bore of the die ring. The closer the fit the longer the resulting jacket will be up to a point where you can't thin the brass anymore. Then you have a jacket in two pieces!

Bob

PS: The above CCI jackets make an open tip flat base bullet of 58 grains with the lead just to the tip so I would say they will make a 55 - 58 gr bullet

Thanks for the additional information.
midnight, I do have a small ring left where the rim was unfolded. Should this ring be ironed out from the deriming process?
BT, thanks for the encouragement.
I think I may try and turn some additional larger bottom punches and maybe another derim die with a .219" O.D. Vs. the. 220" O.D. I have now.
I am very very new to swageing and really appreciate all the advice, keep it coming.
jmsj

When you make new derim punches, think in terms of ten thousandths increase in size. It does not take much of a change to influence the performance of the punch/die combination. Start at what you think is a tiny bit large and polish it down until you get the performance you want. Jackets will stick on a punch that is too large. To remove a jacket that is stuck on a punch, lay the stuck jacket on a flat steel surface and lightly tap the jacket with a small hammer all the way around and it will slip off the punch. Then polish another couple tenths off and try it again. The ring should be almost completely removed when you have it right.

Bob

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmsj

Thanks for the additional information.
midnight, I do have a small ring left where the rim was unfolded. Should this ring be ironed out from the deriming process?
BT, thanks for the encouragement.
I think I may try and turn some additional larger bottom punches and maybe another derim die with a .219" O.D. Vs. the. 220" O.D. I have now.
I am very very new to swageing and really appreciate all the advice, keep it coming.
jmsj

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Mine do that, and so, I think, would any that don't risk thinning the metal, as I descried above, or jamming with small variations in brass thickness. The only empty .22 cases I have thicken some halfway down. I think that ring will be harmless provided it is, as I expect, consistent all the way round.

Your goal should be to get similar length jackets no matter what brand you're using. Most brands I've measured start out at .610 + - a few thousandths. If you end up with all kinds of different lengths after derimming it causes problems later on when point forming. My jackets after derimming are pretty consistent at .682 + - a few thousandths. 57 grain hollow points are no problem for me to make with those jackets. Don't worry about that small indented ring near the bottom of the jacket, I've found it won't affect accuracy at all, as long as the base is flat like it should be at the end of the process. If you try to iron out the rim completely flat, all your doing is stressing the metal and you'll end up with different length jackets. They are also a lot easier to derim that way. The fatter the punch, the harder it is to get through the die. With the Rem and Win cases I use one punch and with the Fed and CCI I use a punch that is 2 thousandths smaller and that gets me more consistent length jackets. Also the top of the punch should be flat with the edge rounded smooth. I've tried different shapes on the top of the punch and a domed shape punch didn't work at all, with small tears in the metal on the base of the jacket. Keeping the integrity of the metal in the base of the jacket is really important for safety reasons. Hope this helps.

Prospector Howard,
Thanks for your input. My derimed cases are coming out .685" +-.002" The bottoms are fairly flat compared to pictures I've seen of other's derimed cases.
I've still got along way to go till I'm ready to point form any bullets. I was hoping to get my core swage die done this week but other things keep coming up (work,kids and honey-do's). I still need to machine a core mold, core seating die and the point forming die (and the radius turning attachment to make the reamers and laps). At this rate, hopefully before 2017 I'll have everything completed.
Thanks, jmsj

midnight
That's pretty much what I get for length on my derimed cases as well. My favorite cases are The Rems an CCI as they seem to be the most consistant. They also just make pretty bullets!:swagemine: