Some Green Dot data found for 45ACP

Some long absent or hard to find powders are coming back into circulation now. One such seems to be Green Dot from Aliant. My standing order for an 8# keg that has been in place for about a year or so is now on its way from the good people at Ballistic Products and I notice Bass Pro has single pound bottles. My personal experience with GD has been with shot shell loading in 16ga and 12ga. I did a research of our site here to see how others had used this venerable old powder in the 45ACP. My findings were pretty sparse and to a larger degree a bit negative due to GD being seen as hard to ignite, position sensitive, very dirty, and generally being an ugly step sister compared to better selections for the purpose. So, mine may be relegated to shotshell use, no problem at all; but I gotta try, don't cha know? Well, the loading date for 45ACP with GD seems to all over globe map. Little published data was noted and I don't think I saw any references attributed to the horse's mouth (Aliant), but I will e-look there too.

But, down in the man dungeon in my archive of "stuff" was found "RELOADERS' GUIDE for Hercules Smokeless Powers copyright 1980. Given Hercules is no more and 35 years is probably well beyond any patent for the intellectual property, I cite the above reference. Important; the charges given are stated to be NEVER EXCEED and reduce by 10% for starting charge weight (cw). Also BEWARE, different production lots may vary and there have been many lots since 1980 by Hercules and then Aliant. The end user assumes ALL risk. Verify the information yourself against several published sources.

180gr - LWC - MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=5.3gr - Vel. 910fps - CUP=14,500

200gr - JHP - MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=5.6gr - Vel. 910fps - CUP=16,000

230gr - LEAD- MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=4.3gr - Vel. 805fps - CUP=13,200

Now, all of that considered, my starting charge under a 200gr #68 boolit seems to fall on the order of 5 grains of Green Dot which is pretty much what the scant data I could find elsewhere noted. I am fore warned to expect a powder/carbon fouled barrel. I will report back when get some hands on experience.

prs

More data found from 1973c "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook"

185Gr. #452389 1.080" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.5, fps=745,cup=8,300 Max. Grs=6.0, fps=965,cup=14,800

200Gr. #452460 1.153" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.5, fps=715,cup=9,000 Max. Grs.=5.8,fps=895,cup=14,400

225Gr. #452374 1.275" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.8, fps=725,cup=11,400 Max. Grs.=5.8,fps=845,cup15,100

I use Green Dot in several calibers and I find it to be a fairly clean-burning powder. I think you will do well with those loads.

That same data is listed in my 2001 Alliant manual.

I have some even older manuals somewhere, maybe back to 1974 or so. I have Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook original, I think. I will search for that and see if there are more.

I have used other powders with dirty reputations and find them quite clean; even before Unique was New Cleaner Burning Unique I had no problem with it and I relate that pleasant odor as what smokeless should be. Then again, I go through a case of real black powder every year too.


Another think, the recent development of handloading with powder paint coated boolits has taken a lot of the smoke and soot out of the equation. The powder may get blamed for the smoke/soot of the lube; sometimes.

prs

I use 4.6gr. Green Dot in my .45ACP, has really worked well for me using the MP-452-200 HP in my RIA, can't remember where I got the load but glad I found it.

In the last two years, I have acquired 12 pounds of the stuff. Before that, all I had used it for was back in the 70's and 80's for trap loads.
The second batch I got last year (unopened 8# canister) a fellow member of the gun club gave to me. Wow, Ehh?
So, after all of the acquisition of GD, I started looking for loads for all my handguns.
For the 45 acp. I shoot 5 grains under a 200 grain swc. Haven't been working on any top loads for that cartridge as of yet. The five grain loads shoots great in both my 1911 clones. To me, GD isn't any less/more dirtier than any other Alliant powder of the same shape.
For my other cartridges, I am still working on the loads with the GD. So the jury is still out.
It'll work, and work well. Use it.
Regards
Jack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ballistim

I use 4.6gr. Green Dot in my .45ACP, has really worked well for me using the MP-452-200 HP in my RIA, can't remember where I got the load but glad I found it.

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I use that same mold model on occasion so I may cast some to use in this project. Thanks.

prs

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prs

I use that same mold model on occasion so I may cast some to use in this project. Thanks.

prs

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I was able to buy Green Dot at the LGS when no other pistol powders were available and was surprised to find out how well it worked in both the 45ACP & 9mm using MiHec HP molds, I've also used it as a substitute for Red Dot with 13 grains in "The Load" of Ed Harris for rifles & it works well there also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littlejack

In the last two years, I have acquired 12 pounds of the stuff. Before that, all I had used it for was back in the 70's and 80's for trap loads.
The second batch I got last year (unopened 8# canister) a fellow member of the gun club gave to me. Wow, Ehh?
So, after all of the acquisition of GD, I started looking for loads for all my handguns.
For the 45 acp. I shoot 5 grains under a 200 grain swc. Haven't been working on any top loads for that cartridge as of yet. The five grain loads shoots great in both my 1911 clones. To me, GD isn't any less/more dirtier than any other Alliant powder of the same shape.
For my other cartridges, I am still working on the loads with the GD. So the jury is still out.
It'll work, and work well. Use it.
Regards
Jack

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Well, that is encouraging. The variable where I may diverge from the know is use of powder coated boolits. Thanks to all.

prs

I found some more data from the 1973 Lyman Cast Vullet Handbook
"Forall popular Rifles, Pistols, and Black Powder Guns". I will go back to my OP above and edit them in.

FYI:
Here is the data from the Lyman 48th edition, from which I started my Green Dot loads.

200 grain #452460.
4.5 grains-----715 fps.
5.8 grains-----895 fps.

200 grain #452630.
5.1 grains-----727 fps.
6.4 grains-----894 fps.

As you know, YMMV. This is NOT my load data, This is Lymans data from their loading manual #48. Proceed with caution.
Regards
Jack

Two loads tried, so far. Both with 200Gr #68 clone (Lee) powder coated with Smoke's clear paint. Both also with 5.3Gr Green Dot charge. One loading was with WW LP primers and the other with CCI LP Magnum primers. The boolits are sized .452" after coating with one heavy coat of the very tough stuff. The brass was very clean, sized, expanded with Lyman M die, seated to have forward shoulder just a few thousands above the crimp, crimp set at .470" at case mouth.

prs

I expected a mild smoky experience. Actually, it both rounds were rather robust with normal recoil. Could tell no difference based upon primer model. Was hitting most everything on the cowboy range. No failures to cycle or feed. No observed smoke, really! Gun barrels looked clean at end of 50 rounds each for 2 1911s. Guns cleaned easily with three patches.

So, I have at least a good plinker load (may reduce it). I may run some over the chronograph, but I usually don't. I have never shot off a bench. Maybe this is a "new, improved, cleaner burning" Dot powder, but it does not say so on canister as does Red Dot. Tight Group shoots cleaner as does 700X, but this is not at all "dirty" and not hard to ignite. Maybe my tight stretch fit of case to boolit helped, maybe the powder coating instead of wax based lube helped. Maybe the stars were aligned just right.

prs

Your experience mirrors mine with that powder. I was just using a different caliber. 50 rounds per pistol is a good indicator of what it will do. If it does it the same the next time then it is a good load.

Green dot is a fabulous powder. I use it in a lot of shotshell loads, and a few cast rifle loads too. It was my choice for 45 ACP full power loads back when I used to load them. I prefer Bullseye for my light target loads, but Green dot did OK there too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by prs

Some long absent or hard to find powders are coming back into circulation now. One such seems to be Green Dot from Aliant. My standing order for an 8# keg that has been in place for about a year or so is now on its way from the good people at Ballistic Products and I notice Bass Pro has single pound bottles. My personal experience with GD has been with shot shell loading in 16ga and 12ga. I did a research of our site here to see how others had used this venerable old powder in the 45ACP. My findings were pretty sparse and to a larger degree a bit negative due to GD being seen as hard to ignite, position sensitive, very dirty, and generally being an ugly step sister compared to better selections for the purpose. So, mine may be relegated to shotshell use, no problem at all; but I gotta try, don't cha know? Well, the loading date for 45ACP with GD seems to all over globe map. Little published data was noted and I don't think I saw any references attributed to the horse's mouth (Aliant), but I will e-look there too.

But, down in the man dungeon in my archive of "stuff" was found "RELOADERS' GUIDE for Hercules Smokeless Powers copyright 1980. Given Hercules is no more and 35 years is probably well beyond any patent for the intellectual property, I cite the above reference. Important; the charges given are stated to be NEVER EXCEED and reduce by 10% for starting charge weight (cw). Also BEWARE, different production lots may vary and there have been many lots since 1980 by Hercules and then Aliant. The end user assumes ALL risk. Verify the information yourself against several published sources.

180gr - LWC - MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=5.3gr - Vel. 910fps - CUP=14,500

200gr - JHP - MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=5.6gr - Vel. 910fps - CUP=16,000

230gr - LEAD- MIN. OAL=1.150 - CW=4.3gr - Vel. 805fps - CUP=13,200

Now, all of that considered, my starting charge under a 200gr #68 boolit seems to fall on the order of 5 grains of Green Dot which is pretty much what the scant data I could find elsewhere noted. I am fore warned to expect a powder/carbon fouled barrel. I will report back when get some hands on experience.

prs

More data found from 1973c "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook"

185Gr. #452389 1.080" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.5, fps=745,cup=8,300 Max. Grs=6.0, fps=965,cup=14,800

200Gr. #452460 1.153" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.5, fps=715,cup=9,000 Max. Grs.=5.8,fps=895,cup=14,400

225Gr. #452374 1.275" OAL specified, Green Dot powder:
Start Grs.=4.8, fps=725,cup=11,400 Max. Grs.=5.8,fps=845,cup15,100

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Excellent advice that is adhered to by all veteran reloaders!

That advise should also be adhered to by new reloaders....... especially the new reloaders.......

Green Dot is an excellent powder for many cast bullet applications in numerous cartridges. Green Dot is just slightly faster burning than Unique, it ignites easily and burns efficiently. However, there is some erroneous data out there regarding it's use. The OP's, prs, use of Hercules data that was pressure tested and lists the pressure is an excellent source for Green Dot loads in many cartridges. Lyman CBHs are another. Some previous Hercules guides that did not list tested pressures had some excessive charges with some cartridges listed and that data should not be used.

I believe a lot of the talk of "dirty" and "smoky" are due to grease bullet lube. If a load is accurate and consistent I don't care if it smokes a bit. Excessive fouling due to loading a powder lighter than it should be is a separate issue.

Does anyone use Green Dot for .38spl 158gr lswc +P? I believe a friend used to do that.........

I've found 7 gr green dot driving a 429421 in my .44 mag to be a great load. Accurate and doesn't beat me up. It's become a favorite for me.

Want to try it in .38, so will be following this thread.

6-6.5 with a 255 rnfp in 45 Colt works great in my Ruger

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ddixie884

Does anyone use Green Dot for .38spl 158gr lswc +P? I believe a friend used to do that.........

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With a Lee 158 TL cast SWC bullet which seats pretty deeply at the 1st lube groove 5 gr of Green Dot is well within +P pressures. 4.5 gr is a top end standard 39 SPL load.