.44 Magnum Chronograph Results

A friend of mine and I had a chance to run out after work this afternoon and run some rounds over his chronograph and thought I'd share the results.

I loaded two bullets, the Lee C430-310-RF and the TL430-240. The big guys weigh out at 305 grains after sizing, lube, and gas checks. The TL boolits weigh out right at 240.

I loaded the 430-310's in .44 Mag cases with three increments of IMR4227; 18g, 18.5g, and ending with the book max, per my Lyman manual, of 19g.
I loaded the TL boolits in .44 Spl. cases with "Skeeter's Load" of 7.5g Unique.
We shot each loading through my 4 5/8 inch Ruger SBH and my 20 inch Rossi R92.

The results were as follows:

18g C430-310-RF; SBH-894 fps avg., Rifle-1147 fps avg.

18.5g C430-310-RF; SBH-923 fps avg., Rifle-1195 fps avg.

19g C430-310-RF; SBH-980 fps avg., Rifle-1240 fps avg.

.44 Spl. "Skeeter's Load;" SBH-902 fps avg., Rifle-1140 fps avg. (This load was very consistent and, in the rifle, very quiet. It might be my new .22LR stand-in during the ongoing shortage.)

We also tried out the Lee Modern Reloading max load of 7.2g of unique under the C430-310 with an average of 752 fps through the revolver.

One round of a 240g SWC over 11.7g of Unique made it through the 'chrono with a velocity of 1426 fps.

All in all, the results were pretty satisfying. There was not a hint of leading in either gun. I might try sneaking up past the 19g load by tenths to try for an honest 1000 fps from the revolver. I also still have 2400 and AA #9 to try out.
The velocity gain from the rifle was telling and confidence-inspiring. It makes the .44 Mag seem like a whole 'nother gun and turns the .44 Spl. into a magnum. We didn't shoot for accuracy; as it was fuh-reezin' out and it was all we could do to keep our fingers working. All the loads did hold a decent minute-of-snowbank group, though.

All the usual disclaimers apply. These loads were perfectly safe in my guns; extraction was effortless and primers looked good. Any comments, suggestions, or questions are welcome.
Thanks for reading.

how well did the "big un's" cycle in the Rossi?

I'll be looking forward to your results with the AA#9 and A2400 in the future. I'm just now moving up to (proper) bigger boolits in my R92, and had a buddy give me a test batch of his Lead Head 265's the other day. Started out yesterday with loads of AA#9 and A2400 with 17.8 gr for both .... 10 shot averages were 1499 and 1469 respectively. Still looking for accuracy myself, but it won't come until I decide on something besides those abominable factory sights.

Thanks for sharing the numbers.

JD

4227 is bulky, and can't propel the heavy boolits as fast as I like due to this because pressure rises too much and then fails due to insufficient powder in case. This is even true in .45 Colt loads loaded to even moderate pressures. Exception to this in the .44 starts in the weight range of the 270 grain lyman devastator and lighter. For those heavy boolits case capacity in the 44 mag suffers too at the same time, and only powders like H110/296 (which are very dense) have a chance. I might be over zealous in your frame of reference, but I can't even imagine wasting effort and components to get 38 S&W velocities in a .44 mag.

The big boolits ran fine through the Rossi. They are seated long, to the bottom crimp groove, and I had no problems. Whether running the lever fast or slow, they chambered fully without a hitch. The Specials ran good, too. I guess I lucked out on the timing in this rifle.

As to the velocity issue, I realize fully that there's plenty of room for improvement. While the revolver is, admittedly, turning in .38 spl. velocities, it's doing it with a boolit nearly twice the weight and with a meplat equal to nearly the full diameter of the .38. I think it's clearly in another league compared to a .38 special.
Manual numbers for both 2400 and AA 9 hold promise for increased velocity vs. 4227. I went with this powder first because I have more of it than anything else in that range. Lots of Unique, but it won't get me there. I'd be interested to hear if the design of that particular boolit, which Dale53 has mentioned before was designed to conserve case capacity when seated long, would allow bit more wiggle to get up over 1000 comfortably.
Hope always does spring eternal that my constant web and store crawl for powder will net me some 300-MP, AA 4100, Enforcer, or H110/W296. Book numbers on those powders, depending on the manual, get appreciably over 1000 fps with the 300+ grain boolits. Anyway, it seems to be close to the magical 1200 fps number. If I can get there with the revolver, I'll be tickled.

Thanks for the good input, the hunt continues...

Thank you for your good report on the two .44s.
My Rossi R92 .44 Mag is a 16" [what was in stock], so velocity will suffer a bit compared to your desirable 20" version. So far, only factory 240 gr ammo in the Rossi.

Also happen to have a 4 5/8" SBH [with .433 chamber mouths...]. The SBH is a fan of Sierra 210 gr over a robust helping of older 2400. For cast [store bought] the best is ~245 gr over ~ 8 of 231. Not a recommendation...YMMV, etc.

We await your AA#9 and 2400 results with interest and appreciation.

Regards,

Dyson

gvrj was kind enough to post this quickload data when I was asking about the same boolit over Hercules 2400. The data shows Alliant 2400. Quickload also doesn't compensate or adjust for barrel/cylinder gap so it would be nice to see how actual chrony results compare.

I use the C430-310-RF cast in 50/50+2% seated long over 17.0gr H2400, Starline brass WLP primer, it is my SBH's pet load, the gun took an instant liking to it. I was trying for 1150f/s from a 7 1/2" Ruger SBH with this one, it is my deer hunting boolit.

Based on a starting weight of 16.0gr and a max of 18.0gr, 17.0gr of Alliant 2400 might be a bit faster burning than 17.0 of older Hercules 2400 but it won't be a big difference.

Here is the velocity estimation from QuickLoad

Cartridge : .44 Rem. Mag. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .430, 310, LEE C430-310-RF
Useable Case Capaci: 26.480 grain H2O = 1.719 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.675 inch = 42.55 mm
Barrel Length : 7.5 inch = 190.5 mm
Powder : Alliant 2400

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 4.374% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-43.7 39 9.00 651 292 6683 2222 60.5 1.634
-39.4 42 9.70 698 335 7671 2516 63.9 1.536
-35.0 45 10.40 745 382 8775 2820 67.1 1.448
-30.6 48 11.10 793 432 10001 3132 70.3 1.366
-26.2 51 11.80 840 486 11356 3451 73.2 1.292
-21.9 54 12.50 887 542 12846 3774 76.1 1.218
-17.5 57 13.20 935 601 14479 4099 78.8 1.147
-13.1 60 13.90 982 663 16264 4425 81.3 1.082
-08.7 63 14.60 1029 728 18211 4749 83.7 1.023
-04.4 66 15.30 1075 796 20331 5070 85.9 0.969
+00.0 69 16.00 1122 866 22634 5385 88.0 0.920
+04.4 72 16.70 1168 939 25136 5693 89.9 0.875
+08.7 75 17.40 1214 1014 27849 5992 91.6 0.833
+13.1 78 18.10 1259 1092 30792 6281 93.2 0.794 ! Near Maximum !
+17.5 81 18.80 1304 1171 33982 6557 94.6 0.758 ! Near Maximum !
+21.9 84 19.50 1349 1253 37439 6819 95.8 0.725 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 69 16.00 1190 974 26894 5658 94.5 0.849
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 69 16.00 1041 746 18556 4932 79.1 1.011

DougGuy, thanks for posting that. It jibes well with some other advice I've been given; 17-18 grains of 2400. It also hints at 2400's superiority to IMR4227 in this application. I'm at the Lyman book max load with the latter and not quite making 1000 fps (Two rounds clocked 1000 even and one was 999, The rest were slow enough to bring the avg. to 980). Your data seem to suggest that velocity is where 2400's just getting warmed up.
Hopefully my 3" less barrel won't cost too much. Anyway, it'll surely break my heart if 2400 is the winner, as I don't have near as much of it as I do 4227.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr surveyor

...Still looking for accuracy myself, but it won't come until I decide on something besides those abominable factory sights...

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I just got to reading over all the posts here and saw this. I, also couldn't stand either the buckhorns or the wing nut safety. I solved both problems by installing the Steve Young aperture sight.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/a...psean8y0mi.jpg

I think it's actually made by Skinner Sights here in Montana. Regardless, it's leaps and bounds better than the original. I currently have the aperture out and it's acting like a ghost ring. I also removed the bead from the front sight so the tip of the sight is now the aiming point.

With heavy boolits (300+gr) in .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, I use 2400 to get into the 75% - 90% power band of both cartridges. The "hunting velocity" range for thin skinned creatures like deer and black bear, 1100-1175f/s. I use H110 when I want to get the maximum velocity out of both cartridges. H110 is not recommended to download below 3%, so I use 2400 to avoid any possible issues from loading to less than a wide open throttle.

LilGun is another powder that is well suited for this "hunting velocity" power band as well, and I worked up one super accurate load in .45 Colt using 20.5gr LilGun and the Lee C452-300-RF. Some of the .454 boys won't use LilGun because they say it can erode forcing cones and rifling and this may be the case at .454 pressures, but I don't forsee any problems with it at 1100-1175f/s from a Ruger.

Will be anxious to hear your findings after loading/shooting some with 2400.

Well, I went ahead a crept up past the Lyman manual's max load with the IMR 4227. I did up samples with 19.2, 19.4, 19.6, and 19.8 grain charges. I felt pretty confident doing this, as the Hodgdon loading data site has a max of 20 grains with a 300 grain Hornady jacketed.
None of the loads exhibited any of the pressure signs that I know to look for. They all extracted effortlessly and the primers looked good.
The 19.8 grain load looks like it might be a winner with an average of 1077 fps through the SBH. It seems to me that a 100 fps increase is alright for a .8 grain bump in the charge. Each of the loadings was comfortably over 1000 fps, though.
The bore is still bright and shiny; so it looks like the roof flashing gas check and the beeswax/2-stroke oil lube are doing their job.
I'll crack into the 2400 and AA#9 here, shortly. I have more latitude as to when I actually do this, because I now have my very own chrono...

I am following this post with interest as I am contemplating getting Rossi 44 mag to go with my Ruger 44 SBH. Also AA#9 is the only magnum pistol powder I have so looking forward to your results. I wonder how much I could push the velocity without having to use gas checks as I'd rather not mess with them if I can avoid it. Love that peep sight by the way.

Lets see that 2400 chrony data...its gotta be spring down there by now... :coffeecom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TMenezes

I am following this post with interest as I am contemplating getting Rossi 44 mag to go with my Ruger 44 SBH. Also AA#9 is the only magnum pistol powder I have so looking forward to your results. I wonder how much I could push the velocity without having to use gas checks as I'd rather not mess with them if I can avoid it. Love that peep sight by the way.

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Thanks, I'm liking the sight, too. The aesthetics and the function are worlds better than stock. More loads to come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlaskanGuy

Lets see that 2400 chrony data...its gotta be spring down there by now... :coffeecom

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Heck yeah, it's spring. I spent the last few days squeezing in a last-minute sled certification class for some of the guys at work. Had to jump on it before all the snow in the mountains was too rotten to ride on.
The thaw is also filling the basement. Both sumps are high and dry, but the "man cave/reloading room" is taking on water like the Titanic. Off time consists of vac'ing up the water and moving it to the sump just to keep pace. No sign of drying out just yet.

Jeep repairs and .44 load experiments are back seated for the time being. Our landlord is supposed to install french drains this summer. it'll be just in time for me to be all done moving the water manually.

Dang, just saw the button to multi-quote. cleaner posts next time...

Having to wait! Sadness, I finally got to sneak out for a shoot last Saturday and when I got to the range I found out its closed because the "Sea Otter Classic" will be in town next weekend. "Why is it closed this weekend if the race isn't till next weekend?" I asked. "Well we have to put hay bails around the track" (which is behind the range) they answered. Oh and then they have to clean up afterwards so the range is closed for 2 weeks....

I finally got some time to load a few samples with 2400 and AA#9. I decided to just evaluate velocities in the SBH, as it'll be the limiting factor for my hopeful all-round load. Fastest in the revolver should also be fastest in the carbine.

I loaded the 2400 in .2 grain increments from 17.0-18.0 and here are the results
17.0- 1095 fps avg.
17.2- 1109 fps avg.
17.4- 1138 fps avg.
17.6- 1148 fps avg.
17.8- 1167 fps avg.
18.0- 1137 ??? fps avg. (not sure how this turned out like that. Must've gotten distracted by the "are'yadoneyet?are'yadoneyet?" coming from the the short people itching to go shooting and dropped back down to a previous charge)

I loaded the AA#9 at 17.4, 17.6, and 17.8 grains.
17.4- 1135 fps avg.
17.6-1150 fps avg.
17.8- 1153 fps avg.

It seems the two powders kinda' converge right around 17.6 grains for just about 1150 fps. I'll probably settle in that range, as it's plenty fast for taking game and for scratchy animal defense.
It is somewhat of a shame that both 2400 and AA#9 have been harder to come by than 4227. 1080, or so, with IMR4227 is still plenty respectable, though.