Felix w/Stearic Acid - Six Months Later

About six months ago, we had a thread in which some concern was stated with using Stearic Acid in making Felix Lube instead of Irory soap.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Version/page18

Some members had experienced corrosion of lubrisizers and cartridge cases and it was attributed to the Stearic acid.
Since I had just made a large batch of Felix using Stearic Acid this caught my attention. Up until that time I had not seen any corrosion on my brass or equipment. I decided to conduct a test to see if i could duplicate the corrosion.
I used three different metals in the test.

1. A polished 223 case. I coated the bottom half of the case with my Stearic Acid Felix lube.
2. Three Hornady copper gaschecks. One covered with Stearic Acid Felix lube, one filled with pure stearic acid and another untreated check as a control sample.
3. A piece of steel bar stock, the surface of which I sanded to get a clean surface. I treated one area of the bar with Stearic Acid Felix lube, another area was covered with pure Stearic Acid, and the remaining surface of the bar was left untreated as a control area.

I placed these sampled on a paper towel in an area of my workshop where they would not be disturbed. My workshop is not temperature controlled and is not completely sealed to the weather. I have checked the sample from time to time and have never noticed any corrosion. It is now about six months since I started the test and I felt enough time has past. I used a paper towel to remove the lube so I could examine the surface of the samples. The results are shown in the photo below. I can see no corrosion on any of the samples, even the surfaces exposed to pure stearic acid. Now this is not to refute anybody else's experience with Stearic acid. The procedures each of us use to make our lube and the materials we choose to use could be different in some way and we could get different results. What I have found, at least in my case, is that the stearic acid did not cause any issues.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/e...ps46137a11.jpg

I use Ivory soap in my FWFL but this info. is valuable for future use.

Larry

Thanks for your work - this is the sort of useful information that should be put into a FAQ to help those of us trying to sort the wheat from the urban legends.

hotbrew

"Urban legend" is a strong term. I may have jumped to a false conclusion when suddenly my gas checks turned crusty green and the insides of my sizer started oozing brown crud into the lube, but it never happened before with regular Felix lube and has not since I boiled it out and refilled with same. I used the same wax as before to make the "bad" batch, the only difference was the lanolin was from Wiljen and the stearic acid. I had used Lansinoh previously. The third batch into the sizer used Ivory and both the lanolin and carnauba from the Wiljen group buy and had no issues, so I know it wasn't the carnauba causing corrosion. The only real variable here is the stearic acid. My shop environment at the time was similar to High Standard's, and probably not as humid since he's in a more humid state. Somewhere along in there I had a rust bloom in a rifle barrel after something like a month (IIRC) sitting uncleaned, which was before and still is my practice with Felix lube and never was an issue except for that one batch of lube. So either some weather anomaly caused all the corrosion or something in the lube. Who knows, but I appreciate the detailed, long-term test, just goes to show how true what CharGar said (and is quoted in my sig line) really is, and how what happens at my house is no guarantee of what will happen at yours.

Gear

I had purchased my Mineral Oil and Castor Oil from the local Walmart, and the Beeswax from a local beekeeper. "The Sage" website is where I purchased the Carnauba, Stearic Acid, and Anhydrous Lanolin (in quantities to keep me in lube for the rest of my life). I don't know what if any of this made the difference........I don't have the answer. Just my personal experience. Like Gear said, "as long as we do what works for each of us". I will be the first to admit that I am far from knowing it all. I don't think that anyone does.

Your test is representative of the best spirit of the site, to put what you read/hear to the test and draw your own conclusions, and put the data forth to allow others to do the same. We've done the same with PB Blocker and discovered it is snake oil of the first order, also we determined through extensive corrosion testing that sodium-soap grease and lube (like Felix) made with such even in high percentages is not harmful to guns, components, or equipment, and a few folks have some compelling evidence that overheating and repeatedly skimming a pot of boolit alloy has no measurable effect on the concentration of tin (something I have tested to the contrary with specific-gravity measurements of reduced skimmings), so as long as people keep questioning what they read and conducting meaningful experiments such as this one, we ALL win, particularly those who may end up being wrong.

Gear

Now that we find out Stearic acid doesn't create corrosion can I peacefully go back to selling Stearic acid.:kidding:

It does harden your lube up at a very low cost and is much easier than dissolving Ivory soap ..My only concern is; It does not have much lubricating properties, therefore, limited use is fine but don't get too carried away.

A BIG THANKS to High Standard 40 for this test

Actually, stearic acid DOES have some very nice lubricating properties, being one of the trinity of fatty acids derived from tallow. Yes, you can sleep well at night, but will you trade my pound or so of stearic acid for some wax? :kidding:

Gear

All due respect here, but I'm thinking that something went wrong with the humidity there in the friendly So. LA area during this test. Could spanning the entire winter (for the southern belt at least) be a factor perhaps???

I say this because I have seen MORE brass tarnish on bare cartridge cases than shown in the photos after a lousy week of summer desert thunderstorms. Inside temps not above 80°F.

Would it be too much to ask for another six months of this indoor but not-climate-controlled test?

The poor schmos I knew as a kid, whose parents were using swamp coolers, had things rust or turn black or green that I never imagined could tarnish/rust/corrode in open air indoors and with no sunlight involved. Our house was newer--had a heat pump.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geargnasher

Actually, stearic acid DOES have some very nice lubricating properties, being one of the trinity of fatty acids derived from tallow. Yes, you can sleep well at night, but will you trade my pound or so of stearic acid for some wax? :kidding:

Gear

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Seems you did some testing on this didn't you? Did you use Stearic acid or was it sodium sterate?

Stearic Acid is very corrosive. The company I worked for blended it with pulverized limestone to waterproof the mineral for use in PVC pipe. The process melted the Stearic and everything it touched was green, black or rusted

Ohhhh I don't know what to say now. Are you sure it was Stearic acid. citric acid maybe?

I have never seen it corrode and we have PICTURES

Randy, take some stearic acid and pour it into a sodium hydroxide (caustic lye) solution. Use a big pot. Same thing as vinegar and baking soda, but more extreme. Draw your own conclusions about what you're willing to expose your guns and equipment to.

Gear

Again, I'll state that I am no chemist, or scientist, nor do I play one on TV. All I can attest to is that I have used Stearic acid in the one batch of Felix lube that I have made and I have no problems with rust or corrosion on my guns, equipment, or ammo. I did look online for properties of Stearic acid and I found this on Wikipedia.

"In fireworks, stearic acid is often used to coat metal powders such as aluminium and iron. This prevents oxidation, allowing compositions to be stored for a longer period of time"

And on eHOW

".....stearic acid can be used as a sealant to protect metal objects from rust. If you've developed a rust problem on the body of your car, or maybe even on the tools you use to work on your car, using stearic acid as a final step in removing rust will help keep the rust from reappearing"


These quotes would lead one to believe that Stearic acid prevents corrosion. I know I exposed both steel and copper to pure Stearic Acid for about 6 months and there was absolutely no oxidation. My experience only.

I think it's called pickleing

The first batch of FWFL that I made up I used Steric Acid that I bought from randyrat it worked great and the lube shoot really well. But then I began to read about problems with it on this forum so I quite using it and out of curiosity I cleaned up a brass case and smeared some the FWFL on the case and it sat on the self over my reloading bench for many months and never showed any signs of any corrosion or even any coloring. Not a through test or very scientific and after many months and getting tired of that shell getting knocked over and rolling around I cleaned it up and it went back into the rest of my brass.

RB

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geargnasher

Randy, take some stearic acid and pour it into a sodium hydroxide (caustic lye) solution. Use a big pot. Same thing as vinegar and baking soda, but more extreme. Draw your own conclusions about what you're willing to expose your guns and equipment to.

Gear

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conclusion: Don't use sodium hydroxide in your lube:kidding: