Need some perspective. Please describe your typical smelting session

Yesterday I spent my second Saturday struggling to keep my firewood smelter hot enough to melt lead. I think I've got the deck stacked against me. I made my smelter out of stuff I had which consisted of a 55 gallon drum with a cut off section of a stainless steel keg (could hold up to about 400lbs). Cut a hole in the drum lid so the keg drops down in, reinforced the opening, then used an angle grinder to open up a dozen vent holes at the bottom and top of the drum. The first Saturday I was able to get 100lbs to melt. But with the keg being so wide it only amounted to about an inch deep. Not really deep enough to start production.

Yesterday I added another 2 rings of vent holes to the bottom and a bunch to the top to increase air flow. I was hoping to get a much hotter burn going so I could really melt the lead fast. At first it seemed promising. Got a very hot fire going and the 100lbs of lead liquefied in about 45 minutes. I spent the next 6 hours trying to keep the drum fed with wood enough to keep the lead melted. No matter how hard I tried the lead wouldn't get hot enough to allow me to drop in a whole vent pipe w/ flange (~5lbs) without freezing over and taking another hour to liquefy again. After going through this routine numerous times the Sun went down and now I've lost all faith in the viability of my smelting rig.

It just got me wondering what the narrative of a typical smelting session sounds like. I've been reading every post here for some time now and I know most of you like your turkey fryer w/ cast iron dutch oven rigs. I'm about ready to go shell out for one of those since they clearly work. I've also seen a few folks here run a setup similar to mine fueled with firewood (with a cut off propane tank for the pot, etc.). What's your secret?

I'd like to solicit comments on what kind of production you're able to get out of your smelting rigs? Specifically...

1) Describe your smelter?
2) How many hours do you typically smelt in one session?
3) How many pounds of ingots do you typically produce in a session?
4) Do you smelt solo; or do you have a buddy helping?
5) Do you cut up all the larger lead into small pieces and add the pieces slowly? If so, what would be the heaviest chunk of lead you'd consider adding to your pot without worrying about the melt freezing over?
6) Any words of wisdom to help me get a good idea of how a typical smelting session should go as well as any tricks or techniques you use that you feel are crucial to a good rate of production. Much thanks in advance!

I use a Dutch oven on a turkey fryer. Takes 15 to 20 minutes to melt down a full load of range scrap.
I can do 200 to 300 pounds in 3 hours or so.

I usually am doing something else at the same time. I can fill the pot, let it heat, and go back in the garage and cast bullets.

I figure that by not just sitting around watching a pot of lead melt it makes better use of my time.

I smelt once or twice a year. I can get enough lead for 2 years shooting in one day so I don't need to do it more often than that.

Only lead I cut up is the ones that won't fit in the pot. If it fits, it melts.

It you KNOW the lead is bone dry you can speed it up a bit by not emptying the pot fully. Even a 1/ inch in the bottom will speed the process a bunch. Failure to have the lead fully dry will lead to bad things.

I use a shovel to add my range scrap. The pot it hot after I empty it but I get all the lead out. It is amazing to see how much water is in the range scrap even after sitting in my garage for a year.

My suggest is to keep it enjoyable. It is work but it shouldn't be something you dread.

I had a smelter set up with a cut off propane tank that would do close to 400 lbs a crack. But I didnt use wood. I used coal and a blower. Shop vacs work great. Find a piece of tail pipe about 4' long to fit the vac hose. Set this to blow up under fire to really boost it. Dry wood would benifit from this also. I could do 2-3 loads in a day. For me the slow down was casting the ingots. Molds cooling and filling. This set up was used as I had 4000 lbs of range metal from an indoor range given to me one time. I cleaned it up and cast into ingots in a coupe 3 weekends.

I was fortunate to get an old plumber's furnace from my Dad. He had it since the 30's. It is all cast iron with a 30# CI pot. Sounds like an afterburner on a jet when firing, but comes up to temp with 25# lead in less than 12 minutes.

Also use a little 5# Lyman pot for small melts....up to temp in about 3 minutes.

The gas valve has a special function that does not shut off but has a pilot setting which is really great to keep the melt at temp during dipping.

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I'd like to solicit comments on what kind of production you're able to get out of your smelting rigs? Specifically...

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1) Describe your smelter?

I run a custom built 400# bottom pour smelter on a reenforced high BTU output propane turkey fryer. I prefer a wide short pot to one that is tall and narrow. With a lid, I believe there is better heat control this way. I definitely prefer bottom pour to the ladle method, but I can do both with this pot. If I wanted to, I could easily run this smelter as wood fired. Because of the ease of operation, I find that I strive to make the best ingots I can just like when casting boolits. It doesn't feel like work!


2) How many hours do you typically smelt in one session?

My sessions run anywhere from one hour to five or six depending on how much I feel like doing.


3) How many pounds of ingots do you typically produce in a session?

While the pot will hold 400#, I usually run it at about 300# to keep things safe. One pot is about an hour to an hour and a half long session.


4) Do you smelt solo; or do you have a buddy helping?

So far I have done all of my smelting solo, with an occasional spectator.


5) Do you cut up all the larger lead into small pieces and add the pieces slowly? If so, what would be the heaviest chunk of lead you'd consider adding to your pot without worrying about the melt freezing over?

I only cut up the lead if it is to long, like lead pipe. I add up to as much as 50# at a time, but the lead is bone dry and the pot still half full of molten lead. With my setup reheat time is minimal.


6) Any words of wisdom to help me get a good idea of how a typical smelting session should go as well as any tricks or techniques you use that you feel are crucial to a good rate of production. Much thanks in advance!

Initial heat up time IMO, shouldn't take much more than 30 minutes. If it does. I say it's time to revamp a bit. The same goes for maintaining heat. I flux numerous times. Flux.. Stir.. Scrape.. and Scoop. Then repeat until satisfied. How you add more lead is going to depend on what and how dry it is. Tinsel fairy is NOT welcome in my shop. My scrap is very dry and I have had no trouble adding more to an existing melt. I am of course all safetyed up from head to toe just in case the TF does rear her ugly head. If I reach a point of tiring or not enjoying myself, then it's time to stop and go again another day. I like to keep things simple and light.

Happy smelting! :-)

Shad

I'd like to solicit comments on what kind of production you're able to get out of your smelting rigs? Specifically...

1) Describe your smelter? My smelting setup is a home made pot that I welded together from an eight inch section of eight inch schedule 80 iron pipe with a piece of ¼" plate on the bottom, I have since added a cutout brake drum to help trap the heat that goes up the sides of the pot. Does it help? I don't know, but I think so. I use a 54,000 BTU burner from a turkey fryer on a home built stand made from 1¼" angle iron, the original stand lost an argument with my daughter and a pickup tire.

2) How many hours do you typically smelt in one session? two to three hours, more if the tank runs empty and I have to go to town ot get more propane.

3) How many pounds of ingots do you typically produce in a session? ]It depends, I usually do two five gallon buckets of wheel weights.

4) Do you smelt solo; or do you have a buddy helping? By myself.

5) Do you cut up all the larger lead into small pieces and add the pieces slowly? If so, what would be the heaviest chunk of lead you'd consider adding to your pot without worrying about the melt freezing over? If it fits it melts. the only reason I ever cut lead is to get it into the pot.

6) Any words of wisdom to help me get a good idea of how a typical smelting session should go as well as any tricks or techniques you use that you feel are crucial to a good rate of production. Much thanks in advance!

My pot full of wheel weights usually yields about 65 pounds, the clips and odd shapes waste a lot of space. I did put 93 pounds of mystery boolits (bought from the salvage yard for forty cents a pound, none were even close to any caliber that I owned) but they packed in a lot closer.

Once the melt has been skimmed and fluxed, I dip out all I can using a one pint cast iron sauce pan. With tipping the pot a bit, this leaves a layer of liquid alloy about ½" or so deep; I then refill the pot with a long handled shovel. The liquid makes for better heat transfer, do to more contact with the pot.

During the melt down phase, I cover the top of the pile of WW with the cast iron lid to the dutch oven I used to smelt with. This also helps to trap some wasted heat, thereby speeding the melting process.

While the WW are melting, I continue to sort the rest; trying ot get all of the zinc and steel out of the pile. This is also a good time ot mark the ingots with what alloy they contain. Since my ingot molds are made to BruceB's design ~10.5" angle iron, I use a screwdriver and hammer to make block letters: P for pure, 20-1, etc. I don't mark WW since it is my primary alloy.

Robert

I use 2 dutch ovens on a dual cooker.
I made a wind break from sheet metal for the sides and front.
I fill both pots with lead or ww's and go do something else for about 1/2 hour.
come back and scrape clips and add more ww's to one of the pots and start fluxing the other.
I fill ingots and clean clips from the second pot.
then refill the first pot with ww's and start fluxing the second.
I keep this routine up till about 11:30am then empty everything out and let it cool off and put everything away.

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Originally Posted by 7Acres

...I made my smelter out of stuff I had which consisted of a 55 gallon drum with a cut off section of a stainless steel keg (could hold up to about 400lbs). Cut a hole in the drum lid so the keg drops down in, reinforced the opening, then used an angle grinder to open up a dozen vent holes at the bottom and top of the drum...

...Yesterday I added another 2 rings of vent holes to the bottom and a bunch to the top to increase air flow. I was hoping to get a much hotter burn going so I could really melt the lead fast. At first it seemed promising. Got a very hot fire going and the 100lbs of lead liquefied in about 45 minutes. I spent the next 6 hours trying to keep the drum fed with wood enough to keep the lead melted. No matter how hard I tried the lead wouldn't get hot enough to allow me to drop in a whole vent pipe w/ flange (~5lbs) without freezing over and taking another hour to liquefy again...

...I'd like to solicit comments on what kind of production you're able to get out of your smelting rigs? Specifically...

1) Describe your smelter?
2) How many hours do you typically smelt in one session?
3) How many pounds of ingots do you typically produce in a session?
4) Do you smelt solo; or do you have a buddy helping?
5) Do you cut up all the larger lead into small pieces and add the pieces slowly?

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While the info you are requesting may help you if decide to use another fuel source and ditch the firewood, I'd suggest posting photos and maybe better descriptions of your setup. Lots of clever/intelligent people here that could probably help troubleshoot your setup.

While I don't smelt with wood as a fuel (I use gasoline in a coleman stove), I have burned alot of wood, in a few different wood stoves.

the 2 obvious things that may not be happening in your setup:
1. Heat transfer to your keg/pot
2. Airflow to your firebox is too high or too low, that should be variable for the type of wood being burned.

I've often thought of building a smelting setup like you discribe. one thing I'd do, is have an aproximately 6' tall exhaust stack for the fire that'll give you draft, then maybe a blower won't be needed. Then a damper in that stack. also I'd make the air intakes 'adjustable' ...I'd probably have them in the firebox door (front) only, and have the stack out the back/top of the barrel. That should direct the heat over the keg/pot.

I'd love to see some photos,
Jon

PS, I smelt with a gasoline coleman stove with a 4 qt stainless steel soup pot. About 35 to 45 lbs of WW's will melt in about 30 minutes. I usually smelt about 300 or so one lb well fluxed ingots in a long afternoon...that includes setup and teardown/cleanup.

PSS, I would worry heat control with a firewood setup when smelting WW's, But it should be the cat's meow for range scrap, or other known scrap (that doesn't contain Zinc or other undesirables that can ruin a batch).

I used the turkey cooker and dutch oven, in 2 hrs, I could do a 5 gallon. bucket and other pieces.
keep clear of all the smoke, I would be sick for 2-3 hrs. afterwards and washed up and layed down. My wife now says after all these years that's why you got lung cancer, she has pics. of me in the smoke, She maybe right, be careful any way. Its not fun now. Joe

Thanks, JonB, for the offer to troubleshoot my smelter! I'm a little embarrassed to post pics because this thing is uuuuuuuuugly. Certainly not anything I am proud of. With that disclaimer out of the way. I'm home from work now so I went out with my 11mo/son on my shoulders and snapped some equally horrific photos. Please check them out and help me diagnose this sad puppy.

Attachment 72512
Here's the smelter with slits cut along the top and bottom. I drop wood directly into the top where the little half-moon is cut out. Definitely not an easy or ideal way to add wood as I have to split the logs then saw any large pieces up small enough to fit into the opening.

Attachment 72513
Here's the top of the smelter where you can clearly see the angle grinder slots for extra ventilation as well as several 1/2" holes in the drum lid. To make sure I was able to keep this thing topped off with wood I resorted to selecting logs that were 4-5" in diameter and cutting 3" wide coins to drop into the slot and push around in the barrel with a big stick. :groner:

Attachment 72514
My first smelting attempt I realized the ash was stopping up the ring of slots I cut around the bottom. So I added another ring. Then my melt started to cool again. Figured I needed to cut a third ring of slots to improve airflow yet again.

Attachment 72519
Here's what the pot is made from. It's got about 100lbs of frozen lead in it now from Saturday's session. The first Saturday yielded 75lbs melted. This past Saturday I was only able to get an additional 25lbs melted. Still only an inch deep. Not really deep enough to start dipping and pouring 5lb channel iron ingots.

This whole smelter design evolved from the way I make my own charcoal for grilling on my Big Green Egg grill. For that I take a 55 gallon drum and cut one ring of slots around the bottom. I take a second drum and cut slots around the bottom as well plus cut off the bottom. I stack the bottomless drum on top to serve as the afterburner. After 2 hours I knock the afterburner off, fasten on the lid and mound dirt around the bottom ring of slots to starve it of oxygen. Next day I have about 50lbs of hardwood charcoal. I've been making my own charcoal for a few years now and love making my own. So there was a method to the madness here. With the advice of the fine folks here, I'm about to get an education on why you need an entirely different design if you want to make ingots instead of charcoal. I await your troubleshooting tips! :drinks:

Yeah, I've read about making charcoal with a 55 gal bbl and a 30 gal bbl. but have never tried it. someday...maybe ?

Anyway,
The biggest problem is the Keg/pot is way too far away from the fire/coals. Consider some of my suggestions in post #8 for your second attempt, I'm afraid I don't really have any other ideas right now. I'm sure others will chime in with suggestions.

btw, The photos aren't that bad.

7Acres... PM sent

Everyone has really touched on all the issues and I imagine with some tweeks, you'll get things hot enough. I smelt with wood and had some of the same problems. If you look at my thread "Wood Fired Smelter" you can see the solutions that worked for me. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...+fired+smelter

Great suggestions, Shad, JohnB and cat223! I'm back to the drawing board for sure. I'm going to have to start from scratch with a new 55 gallon drum though.

I felt like my wood fired rig was going to take a lot more work to redesign it and get it back in commission. I had fashioned a propane rig before the WF rig. It had major issues and didn't work. But with the help of ShadowCaster my ~400lb keg pot propane rig came to life today! I got ~300lbs of roof vents & flashing melted down and made some ingots. Here are some photos and a couple short videos I took of it today. Try not to laugh at my big honkin' bottom pour ladle. :oops:

https://plus.google.com/photos/11119...O2kmKj9uNy8vgE

:lovebooli

Well, I've never seen orange flames under or around my propane smelter. You have WAYYYYYY too little oxygen mixed with the propane. You're loosing a lot of efficiency, wasting propane.

here's my set up, see any orange flames?

Attachment 72952

Attachment 72950

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Attachment 72955

See where the hose goes into the burner valve? There's an adjustable ring on there with slots to align to make the nice blue flame you're looking for. That orange flame is carbon that should be burning to make for better, quicker heat. If yours doesn't have that adjustment, get a different burner.