Check my 45-70 load

I am getting a 415 grain accurate mold. I have not been able to find much data on 415 grain loads, so I am basing it on 420 grain Lyman data. I have a new Marlin 1895 SBL. I was looking at starting with 35 Grains of IMR-4198 and working up to 42 grains. I have CCI primers; not sure if I should use magnum primers or the large rifle. Also, are the 4198 or the IMR-3031 temp sensitive? I also have some 3031 powder on hand to try. I was thinking starting at 43grains and going up to 47. Another question I have, is will there be enough loose space in my cartridge to justify using some Dacron? This is my first time loading a straight walled cartridge so I am looking forward to that!

Jeyvod, I have had good results as low as 32 grains of 4198 behind similar weight boolits in my guide gun. Current favorite is a 420 grain group buy and 25.3 grains of 2400.

Magnum rifle primers shouldn't be necessary, but if that's all you have, give them a try.

One thing I learned about the levergun throwing heavy boolits at moderate velocities, is that you have to treat it like a big pistol--- consistent hold is mandatory for getting the holes close together on target.

Love my 45-70. And its great that I can load an extremely effective large game round for less than most are paying for .22WMR cartridges.

I load:

40 gr - 3031 w/ a 415 gr boolit
30 gr - 4198 a tuft of Dacron w/ a 415 gr boolit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 725

I load:

40 gr - 3031 w/ a 415 gr boolit
30 gr - 4198 a tuft of Dacron w/ a 415 gr boolit

---

Do you know what kind of velocity you are getting?

I'm assuming that this is intended as a grizzly-defense/dangerous game round in the neighborhood of the Buffalo Bore and Garrett 45-70 rounds? If so, I recently did a similar work up with IMR 4198 for my brother in Alaska and I'd be happy to share what I learned from that, quite a bit of research, test, and evaluation went it to it.

If you intend it for less extreme situations, I'd highly recommend going quite a bit lighter (as other responses have as well), maybe in the 1200-1400fps range. (At 42 gr of 4198, 385 gr NOE bullet (around 1800 fps or so) in Buffalo Bore small primer brass, while accuracy was excellent, and no signs of excess pressure were evident, my note says "Shoulder-crushing recoil."- and it was) In my Guide Gun, even with proper technique and shooting position and as a largish, fit shooter with a lifetime of powerful cartridges in light guns, I found it quite unpleasant to shoot- observers politely declined the opportunity. Certainly doable, but won't tolerate it without a darn good reason.

No, I was intending it to be kind of an all-purpose hunting round. I was hoping for velocity between 1500-1700 for a bit flatter trajectory. Maybe my shoulder will scream at me to slow it down!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jevyod

No, I was intending it to be kind of an all-purpose hunting round. I was hoping for velocity between 1500-1700 for a bit flatter trajectory. Maybe my shoulder will scream at me to slow it down!

---

I guess then just start on the low end and work up until you either get what you want or decide that the pain isn't worth it. If you don't like what that gets you, maybe consider a 350ish grain bullet.

On the temperature sensitivity issue, I haven't determined that yet for 4198, but I developed and chronoed it with temps in the 90s and intend to chrono it again once we get some cold weather. I have noticed it (anecdotally, I didn't set out to systematically test it) in IMR 4350 in IMR 7828ssc when developing loads in AZ in the summer, and going up to Alaska in August/September to hunt. I can't confirm temperature, elevation, or something else as the cause, but it did change the elevation component of my zero both times.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by g.man10mm

I'm assuming that this is intended as a grizzly-defense/dangerous game round in the neighborhood of the Buffalo Bore and Garrett 45-70 rounds? If so, I recently did a similar work up with IMR 4198 for my brother in Alaska and I'd be happy to share what I learned from that, quite a bit of research, test, and evaluation went it to it.

If you intend it for less extreme situations, I'd highly recommend going quite a bit lighter (as other responses have as well), maybe in the 1200-1400fps range. (At 42 gr of 4198, 385 gr NOE bullet (around 1800 fps or so) in Buffalo Bore small primer brass, while accuracy was excellent, and no signs of excess pressure were evident, my note says "Shoulder-crushing recoil."- and it was) In my Guide Gun, even with proper technique and shooting position and as a largish, fit shooter with a lifetime of powerful cartridges in light guns, I found it quite unpleasant to shoot- observers politely declined the opportunity. Certainly doable, but won't tolerate it without a darn good reason.

---

g.man I'd be interested in hearing your research results if you'd like to share...not to side track the thread, just happen to be interested.

I would be interested as well. I want to eventually work up a dangerous game round!!

Thanks for the interest guys, I started a thread on it. Will probably take me a few days to get all the info and pictures up.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...84#post2955284

I would start low and work up while firing groups. let your shoulder tell you when to quit and go back to the last accuracy node. My rifle likes 40 gr of 3031 under a Lee 405 gr HBFN. Actually it liker 44.5 gr better but my shoulder vetoed that idea.

You cannot make it shoot flat and will have trouble keeping it from over penetrating.

Over penetrating???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by starmac

Over penetrating???

---

I'd rather have the energy spent inside the game animal, rather than the hillside or tree behind it.

I found that 35.5 grains of 3031 with a 405 grain bullet is pretty comfortable in my Browning 1886 rifle. My rifle is a bit heavier than yours thus reducing felt recoil a touch. This is also a very consistent load producing 1,225 fps in my 26" barrel. In your lighter rifle you may find it to be all you want on a regular basis. I once had a Ruger number one so chambered and tried driving the 405 to around 1,800 fps. I fired two or three rounds and didn't want any more. Luckily I found a couple of young guys at the range who had never fired a 45-70 and were apparently gluttons for punishment. They fired the balance of the 20 rounds I had loaded.

Good Luck, and enjoy your rifle,
Rick