I am wondering if metallurgy has advanced enough to allow at least occasional use of the rifle only loads in modern handguns and which would be the better candidates.
The 327FM is pretty warm, itself, after all.
I am wondering if metallurgy has advanced enough to allow at least occasional use of the rifle only loads in modern handguns and which would be the better candidates.
The 327FM is pretty warm, itself, after all.
I've tried some hotter loads using 1680 and a 115gr gc in a 1931 OP. I gave it up because it Was painful and decided something less vigorous was appropriate.
My Colt SA in 32-20 would handle just about any load I used in my rifle, if I could handle the loud crack when it fired.
Ruger and Buckeye Sports (now defunct, I believe) at one time made their Blackhawks with both 32 H&R Magnum and 32/20 WCF swap cylinders. i suspect a Blackhawk so chambered could process the 32/20 HV rifle stuff without a problem. Ruger's very similar Blackhawk in 30 U.S. Carbine takes on 30 Carbine ammo that runs 38K-40K PSI without a glitch. In fact, a number of shooters use reformed/fire-formed 32/20 brass in their 30 Carbine Blackhawks. If you load both calibers, it becomes obvious that the 30 Carbine is little more than a rimless 32/20 HV Rifle adaptation to self-loading and true 30 caliber bore and groove specs.
The 327 Federal runs at significantly higher pressure than 32/20 HV or 30 U.S. Carbine--on the order of 46K PSI. In the 4.2" barrel of my SP-101, it is even LOUDER than my 30 Carbine Blackhawk, which takes some real doing. I have run a couple hundred full-tilt 327 Federals through my SP-101, and that has been enough to suit me. I will likely do with the 327 the same thing I have done for years with my S&W Model 16-4 in 32 H&R Magnum--load cast 100 to 120 grain bullets to 950-1100 FPS and call it "good". Early work with my SP-101 shows such loads to be docile, tractable, and ACCURATE AS CAN BE.
Most of the guns now being sold in 327 Federal cater to the CCW buyer, and that is a valid market niche for certain. But sport shooters and hunters need war toys, too--and I would LOVE to have a good double action medium-frame 327 with 6" barrel. That is called a CLUE at my old job site, S&W.
ETA--Gopher Slayer/Glen makes a point about the Colt SAA having the wherewithal to manage rifle-level loadings. They likely do, but I am not going to try that with my 1906-made Bisley Model x 4-3/4". I might try it with a Uberti/Cimarron SAA clone, though. As Glen points out, these 30-32 caliber sideirons get blasty as can be when the bullet velocities crawl past 950-1000 FPS. I am not sure that the net ballistic gain is worth the blasty side-effect. Higher velocities can mean flatter trajectories, and I appreciate that. Perhaps this allows a small game or varmint hunter to make longer shots, but my view is that 30 Carbine and 32/20 HV in rifles still doesn't 'make the cut' into the large game leagues. I am aware that many deer have fallen to the 30 Carbine and 32/20's barks, but I still think both are sub-marginal for the venue. JMHO.
Buckeye did offer these with the "buckeye" on the pistol. I saw a couple of these for sale online and bid a little bit but couldn't really figure out why I wanted one so stopped. As usual, I'm kicking myself for not getting one.
Good info, thanks.
My Granddad was a big fan of the little old 32-20: small framed guns for concealed carry, large framed for open carry, both Colts and Smiths, and a 92 behind the ranch's back door. He passed, and his guns lost to thieves that watched funeral notices; before I'd outgrown my magnumitis phase, and he was a gun using guy more than a gun guy. I do, though, recall his stash of commercial "rifle only" ammo; and him saying "an occasional cylinder full of it won't wear-out a large framed revolver in any man's lifetime." Some of his 32-20 "paraphernalia" has come to me, and has put old cartridges, guns, and men front of mind.
Many, many years ago, I bought a box of "rifle only" loads for my fathers Colt Police Positive Special. I was a teenager and listened to the guy selling the cartridges to me rather than reading the box. Anyway, 6 rounds in the PPS bent the main center shaft of the revolver. A gunsmith fixed it for me. I have since inherited it.
A few years later, I found an acquaintance that had an old Colt SAA in 32-20 (I am pretty sure it was a smokeless version). When he heard I had rifle only 32-20 loads, he wanted to fire them. We both shot it with my rifle only loads and had a ball. The "crack" was unbelievable. At dusk, the fireball out the end of the barrel was at least 3' long. I could not tell that we did anything bad to the Colt. That is the extent of my rifle only experience in handguns.
I don't think they have manufacturered "rifle only" loads since the 1950's (or earlier). They looked different from ordinary loads. The ones I had were round nose hollow points (lightweight, something like 80gr). I have shot many handloads to equal (or perhaps exceed) the rifle only loads, but only in rifles. There are a lot of loads that are between factory loads and rifle only loads that work well in modern handguns. PS. The factory loads from the 1950s are more powerful than factory loads made recently. 150 to 200fps more than newer loads.
Attachment 222256
Several Blackhawks have been rechambered from 30 carbine to 32-20.
My 1915 Colt Army Special (later called Official Police) and a Uberti / Cimarron 1873 revolver have digested several thousand HV .32-20 loads with no ill evvect. I use 105 gr cast bullet over 9.5 grain 2400. I have pushed to 10 grains of 2400 but brass life is short while the lighter load gives many reloadings. My 9.5 grain load give 1375 +- in the 5 1/2 inch revolver and 1650 +- in a Marlin carbine. Bullets are soft, don't lead and the wound is awesome.
As a caution, this load should not be used in the Police Positive Special nor Smith Hand Ejectors prior to heat treat modles.
Pretty sure F/A will chamber you a model 97 in 32-20. Good luck breaking one of those :)
Yes, they will and do; and F/A are amazing guns.Quote:
Originally Posted by dubber123
I was just hoping for something at least a pound lighter in weight to wear and at least a pound lighter in flesh for which to pay.
Buckeye was my distributor when I was in business. I sold several of the Specials. I had one of
each. Had, I sold them. My brother still has the 32/20-32mg. He shoots our rifle loads in it with
no problem. Big John that owned Buckeye made sure all his dealers got one of each reguardless
of whether they were big or small operations.
I have a Buckeye 32-20/32 mag. My loads in 32-20 will outdo the 327 mag by a fair bit, bullet weight and speed.
The 32-20 IMHO is deserving of data like the 45 colt, Blackhawk and modern revolver only loads.
That makes sense. With that strong gun you gain from the old "...no replacement for displacement" truism.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH
I have a early 60’s winchester wood board penetration sheet that still lists the 80 grain 32-20 HV loads. Surprised nobody made mention of the factory chambered T/C contenter. While I don’t plan on doing it, I somewhat knew an army special/ official police would probably digest this round just fine as it has plenty of “meat” around the cylinder and forcing cone. I remember firing a friends bisley in TX with any 32-20 he could find, I believe almost all of it was for both revolvers and rifles. The cylinder gap was large though and it made a louder noise than most any handgun we had except a magnum. Probably in its lifetime, it did fire a few of these. 9.3x62AL hits the nail on the head questioning if the hot 32-20 cartridges in a handgun would have a use. Back then pot hunters or thrifty farmers MADE it work for deer in a rifle, I would rather hunt with a cast 30-30, 44 special or 35 Remington that WILL work.
Either speer and or Lyman publish hot 32-20 loads intended for the contender.
I am likely being over-cautious with my several 32/20 wheelguns. I am loath to strain my Colt Army Special, Bisley, or pre-war S&W M&P with any load that runs a 115-120 grain bullet over 900 FPS. Ken Waters' "Pet Load" for this caliber & bullet weight was 6.0 grains of SR-4756, and that is a good "top" load for this class of revolvers. I get 875 FPS to 915 FPS from my three 5" barrels on these arms. The age range of these wheelguns spans from 80 to 120 years old, so I use them gently. I do load HV 32/20s, but those get run through a 2004-made Marlin 94 CCL.
The New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine cylinder does not have recessed case heads as did earlier guns. There is adequate head clearance for Starline .32-20 brass and which works very well and the Ruger handles the hotter Winchester 92 loads well.
Be advised that some older .32-20 brass is too long, and must be trimmed to 1.285" to fit in the .30 Carbine cylinder. This also precludes the older factory "rifle only" loads from chambering.
I am a 32-20 booster, but I have always thought Ruger had it right using the .30 Carbine cartridge in a heavy single-action revolver. The reason is the thickness of the brass.
I don't shoot very heavy 32-20 loads in my revolvers, but I also have a Marlin 1894CL that I have shot heavy loads in. I have taken that one up to 12.0gr of 2400 with a 100gr Remington soft-nose, flat-point. No problems with the accuracy or the rifle, however, I don't use that any more. With Remington and Winchester brass, it was good for one reload most of the time. The problem was with the brass. I reduced it to 10.0gr and the brass would last a few reloads longer. Better, but not good enough. Once Starline brass became available, the 10.0gr load became practical.
The heavy frame Ruger should be able to take these loads easily. I have been using 12.5gr of 2400 in .30 Carbine brass for years without any brass problems (in rifles).
I am not sure what folks get out of the 32/20 blackhawk, but other than a custom it and the FA would be able to handle anything a carbine would. Now I don't see any of those speeds listed. But I have to think the 327 Federal is only available in two gun's capable of handling what we consider full house loads. I really wanted a blackhawk in 327 FM but after 8 or 9 months looking, as soon Ruger released a 6" Full Lug GP-100 in this caliber I jumped on it, not expecting what I was going to find after some loading.
It as with the Blackhawkm have enough cylinder length to shallow seat several heavier bullets that are usually used more in the 32/20 than the 32M or 327FN. what I found, seating a NOE 125grn WFN in my GP seating it with the bullet crimped in the top grease groove it was quite capable of jumping right on the heels of the 32/20 in a handgun. I used Federal SR 205M primers and all loads could be dropped from the cylinder with a finger nail. and no hard extraction when using the extractor. I went with this revolver because I wanted one that was capable of Varmint hunting with loads good enough to shoot 100 yards or better, with enough power to do it fairly flat and have enough power to take game up to Coyote, it will with ease at nearly 1600 fps, and capable if well under 2" at 50 yards, and 6 out of 7 shots cutting one hole at 25 yards.
Attachment 222414Attachment 222415
For serious loads the longer nosed 140 grain Mihec 321-140 showed superb accuracy and speed with 50 yard groups for all but one chamber, giving me
Attachment 222416Attachment 222417
Even out to 100 yards excluding the one shot that continues to be from the same cylinder every time it is as accurate as one can ask for with 6 shots turning in groups for those s matched chamber well under 3" and just over 1 1/2" when I do my part.
Attachment 222418
I don't know how this stack's up against the Blackhawk or FA in 32/20, but since I am not mating my Varmint revolver to a carbine, I am more than satisfied, and was quite surprised with the performance the 6" GP-100 has provided. Yje longer cylinder made it a whole different cartridge in guns capable of taking advantage of the longer seating length.