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I am curious how hard it would be to rechamber a S&W N frame that is in 455 webley to 45 colt, I would like to take advantage of 45 colts lower chamber pressure and ease of getting brass, the chamber was already modified to accept the 45 colt rim but the chambers are still the length of 455 webley MKI so 45 acp length.
Is this something a guy coukd do them selfs or is this require a fair bit of skill and machines to do?
You could certainly do it yourself without any skill at all. Only problem being that you might not (probably not, more like) get the results you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanJames170
I spent about 7 years learning to become a machinist. Mostly because I also want to be able to make and modify firearms. I've learned how to use a reamer, how to measure accurately, etc., and while I might do something like this on an old crappy gun I don't care about that much, I'd want to practice a few times first before trying it on a gun I actually liked. If you want to do this yourself, I'd try a few other projects first, to make sure you have the skills you need.
One of the things I learned in my machining class was that I wasn't doing a very good job of measuring the parts I was trying to make, and it took a bit of practice to fix that. You could be a natural a this stuff, and do thing perfectly the first time, but unless your initials are JMB it's not at all likely! ;) It sure didn't work that way for me, and I'd taken a machine shop class when I was in high school. That was 50 years ago, now. By the time I got my first lathe, I had forgotten everything I'd ever learned about machining except that I'd liked it, and it took quite a bit of practice to get things back the way they were in 1973. It had only been about 34 years...
I've only recently gotten my first S&W pistol, and it's not nearly as nice as the older ones are. I'd buy a spare cylinder for yours, and practice on it until I knew I could do it right, if I were you. My shop now includes multiple lathes and milling machines, and measuring tools and I'd still be wary of tackling such a project. Especially on moderately valuable gun.
John Moses Browning started out in a shop with skilled gunsmiths, like his dad and older brother, and by the time he made his first firearm, he'd been working some years with them. And it was, IIRC, not as good as it could have been. He was about 12, I think. I'm 68 now. Slow learner, what can I say? :)
Bill
Have you considered the 45 Cowboy Special, 45 Colt rim and 45 ACP length. Don't have any personal experience with it but might be an option that would not require any further modification of the gun. Brass is available, not sure about dies.
I have some of that just I have come to the conclusion 45 colt being closer to the forcing cone and also being 14,000 psi in 90% of loading data will make it far easier to load for this gun, and obtain accurate loads, it seams to currently like things in the 250gr range and there is a lot more load combinations fir 45 colt with 250gr bullets then anything else with out getting into dumb pressuresQuote:
Originally Posted by Rich/WIS
IIRC, you can use .45acp dies on Webley .455 brass. I had a Webley .455 that also took half-moon clips with .45acp rounds. This was, mind you, long ago, and far, far away, in another universe. Didn't keep it, and don't really remember why, but it was a decade or more before I finally found a 1911 of my own.
Couldn't tell you how hard it is to find those clips anymore, but anyone with a file and a hacksaw should be able to make them if needed.
Beleave it or not it is not cut to accept 45 acp on moon clips or 45 auto rim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrounge
+1 for 45 CS. And, One uses 45 Auto Rim dies for the roll crimp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich/WIS
I have a Colt New Service and a Smith chambered in 455: on each, using cast bullets sized .452", they hit the target, but the group is lacking. If I use hollow-base bullets, I can group the rounds respectably.
The S&W .45 revolvers of that era have huge cylinder throats of .455+ and accuracy will be poor with common .45 bullets. Stick to the Webley 265-grain HB bullet or a 265 grain soft 8-10 Bhn lead bullet of .455-.456 diameter and 4 grains of Bullseye, Titegroup, WST or 452AA in Cowboy Special brass. You will be very much happier.
Best load in my unmolested 1914 Colt New Sevice .455 Eley is Accurate 45-264H in Starline .455 Mk2 brass, loaded to about 770 fps approximating the energy of .45 Colt factory loads with 4 grains of 452AA.
Key to accuracy is the long, full-diameter, parallel-sided nose which enters the cylinder throats of the longer 0.87" .455 Eley chamber, even when loaded in the shorter 0.76" Mk2 cases, to give positive guidance to the bullet. Groups are about half of that normally expected firing FMJ WW2 service loads or handloads with the HB Mk2 bullet.
Penetration of the heavy, WFN bullet is astounding. It is a stone killer on deer and hogs. Be advised that this is a "full charge" load absolutely NOT for any top break Webleys! Reduce charges with the above powders to 3.5 grains for use in Webleys refitted in FTR with heat treated cylinders for WW1 service, for 650 fps in a tight gun with B-C gap not over 0.006" and 600 fps in one having a large wartime cylinder gap over 0.010".
Attachment 314845Attachment 314846
If the chambers have been cut for the 45Colt rim only,,
The 455 ammo can still be used as it's rim is larger in dia than the Colt45 and will span the new rim cut and not drop into it.
So if you really wanted to,,you could reload for & use the 455
The other side of it is as others have pointed out is that the 45 Cowboy Special brass will now fit into the cylinder as well (45acp case length w/a 45Colt rim)
I'd save the money of further gunsmithing work or DIY work which would still involve purchase or rental of the 45Colt reamer to do.
Use the $$ instead to buy what ever appropriate brass, dies and bullets needed and go shooting.
As Ed pointed out in post #8 determine how big your cylinder throats are. That would be a first step.
The next thing to consider is the Obozo EO of 2016 (still on the books) which makes a simple conversion like your cylinder into an act of "manufacturing" where it improves the overall capability of the gun, smiths that want to continue doing simple gunsmithing like a caliber conversion would have to pay a $2,200.00 annual "fee" or be fined. It also gave BATFE free reign to go after a smith retroactively for performing normal work that smiths have done for generations.
If your revolver was chambered in 45 Colt from the factory, you could convert a 45 ACP cylinder to 45 Colt to "repair" the revolver to as-manufactured status without penalty. But a caliber change? Nope, that's "manufacturing."
My avatar pistol is a 45 Colt Uberti with factory cut .4565" throats, I size a 454190 boolit to .456" and it is very accurate even though the barrel groove is only .451."
RCBS should be able to make the dies, a, "Custom," job.
In my opinion, if your gun has been altered to use Colt rims you may use.45CS or you may trim.45Colt or Schofield brass to length and load it with 255gr swcbb machine cast bullets crimped in the groove on top of 5gr Herco powder for a little over 13,000psi and about 800fps.
Guys, his revolver will no longer accept the 45 long Colt or the 45 CS, if what he posted is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanJames170
Kevin
In this post he said he had some .45CS and had been useing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanJames170
The revolver was given recess like later S&W revolvers had on this one it accepts just a portion of the rim, i don’t know what it was done outside of to deal with thicker 45 colt rims, the cut how ever is too tight for 45 auto rim.Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawHat