38 Special case expanders - A missellany.

I have been handloading the 38 Special for over 50 years and it is without a doubt my favorite sixgun cartridge. I don't use bullets harder than ACWW and often softer. I prefer to use an expander the same size or .001 under bullet diameter to keep deforming the bullets. With some brass springback and a proper crimp, this works just fine for me.

Over the years I have accumulated a fair amount of loading gear for the 38 Special and thought I would show you a little about how it has evolved and some special needs.

First pic is of some RCBS expanders and from left to right they are;

1. A 1958 expander that measures .357. This is before jacketed bullets became popular.
2. A 1980 expander that measures .356. This is after jacketed bullets became popular.
3. An older .357 expander I modified for wadcutter use. The bullets seat deeper in the case and therefor the case needs to be expanded deeper as well. The second step for bullet seating is .360.
4. A special .3585 long expander for hollow base wadcutters. These long bullets with thin skirts can be easily deform with a regular expander. Use this only in wadcutter brass as they will bulge regular 38 Special brass to the point they will not chamber. Sorry to say, but RCBS no longer offers these special expanders.

Second pic is of some Lyman expanders and left to right they are;

1. A 310 expander that measures .357 (so marked) with a seating step of .359.
2. A 310 expander that mesures .358 (so marked) with a seating step of .361.
3. Current "M" style expander that measures .356 with a seating step of .360.

I find it interesting that Lyman can't seem to make up their mind what an expander should look like.

Those are some nice expanders. Too bad the standard manufactures don't offer a "lead boolet only" set of dies. Not only are their expanders (as they come with the sets) too small..... the case sizing dies I feel, really bring down the cases too much for most revolvers. I know: the need to make the die fit every gun in the world!

I solved my expander problems by having 40Super make me up a set of custom expanders for all my calibers I shoot lead in.
He did a "Super" job I might add. I did have to buy a few Lee expander dies ( since his designs are based on those type inserts) I have also gone so far as to resize my .38 Special brass in a Lee 38 S&W sizing die ( since I feel the RCBS & Lee .38 Special dies size the brass down too small for my purposes).

To Point: when Winchester fired brass comes out of the cylinders on my Mod 15 S&W they at about .378"
The RCBS .38 Spec dies resize that case to .373" The Lee .38 Spec dies resize to .374" But running the fired .38 Spec cases thru a Lee 38 S&W die resizes them to approx .376" which loads my lead boolits easy with my custom expander & without undo working of the brass They easily fit the cylinder and shoot very well. I feel the case neck tension is fine (Especially when loading WCs).
Has anyone ever tried this? BTW I also resize my .38 S&W brass in a 9mm Mak die ( otherwise you can't load a proper sized lead boolit it it's case)

Great thread and thanks for sharing. I've done something similar with 45 acp and a Colt sizer.

Take care

r1kk1

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Originally Posted by JWFilips

Those are some nice expanders. Too bad the standard manufactures don't offer a "lead boolet only" set of dies. Not only are their expanders (as they come with the sets) too small..... the case sizing dies I feel, really bring down the cases too much for most revolvers. I know: the need to make the die fit every gun in the world!

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Check out the RCBS Cowboy Dies.

( Unfortunately, they do not make them in .40 caliber. )

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Originally Posted by williamwaco

Check out the RCBS Cowboy Dies.

( Unfortunately, they do not make them in .40 caliber. )

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I understand the Cowboy dies by RCBS are good things, but they are pricey and I can load the way I want with older dies. I see no reason to spend money to do something that I am already doing anyway.

Cowboy dies are just a step backward in time. They may seen like something new to newer shooters, but they are not. Jacketed sixgun bullets is a fairly recent innovation and dies have been changed to accommodate them. Dies produced before the popularity of jacketed bullets were designed and made for cast/lead bullets. They sell for a very low price as everybody seems to think that carbide is the way to go.

I have been resizing my .38 Special cases (as well as my .357 Mag) with a .38 S&W dies for some time now This way they only resize the case minimally. I'm only using lead cast boolits so I feel no need to squeeze the brass down any further with dies made to hold metal jacketed bullets.
I find that I get a nice slip fit in the charge holes of the cylinder. If I size them with a standard .38 Special/.357 Mag die they are very loose

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Originally Posted by JWFilips

I have been resizing my .38 Special cases (as well as my .357 Mag) with a .38 S&W dies for some time now This way they only resize the case minimally. I'm only using lead cast boolits so I feel no need to squeeze the brass down any further with dies made to hold metal jacketed bullets.
I find that I get a nice slip fit in the charge holes of the cylinder. If I size them with a standard .38 Special/.357 Mag die they are very loose

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I stopped using carbide sizers years ago for this reasons. I use 50s and early 60s sizers as they reduce the cases much less.

There is another way to size even less and still get good bullet tension, but I an still doing some testing before I talk about it here.

I know this is a old thread, but I just wanted to say thank you. I just learned a lot, and figured out what went wrong last night.
I loaded my first batch of cast wadcutters last night. I had a quite a bit of case bulging. This bulging had not happened with commercial FP plated bullets I had loaded before. I used modern rcbs dies, wad cutters were sized to .358, I seated flush with the top of the case. Brass was mixed head stamp. 10 out of 50 rounds would not chamber. 9 out of the 10 bad rounds were stamped PMC and the last bad one was PPU. Speer and Federal show almost no bulge, while RP and Winchester have a noticeable bulge but will still fit into the cylinder.
All things being the same the brass wall thickness must be the issue.

FYI, no need to get Cowboy RCBS dies. The only dimensional differences vs the standard dies is the expander plug and sometimes seating stem profile. In a standard set, the expander can be retroffitted with a "Cowboy" expander assembly. $7. Adds a little extra diameter and sometimes deeper expanding. For 10mm, the 38-40 Cowboy expander plug assembly is the ticket, by the way.

I like that the Cowboy plugs have the little gold colored lock ring so I can see which plug is in my die.

Of course NOE makes some nice expander plugs too.

The Cowboy dies were on sale at a really good price a few years ago so I got some. I wanted a set of dies for a particular bullet so I wouldn't have to adjust the entire toolhead when I used that boolit anyway. I enjoy using them just 'cause they're purty and they look nice on top of my Dillon 550.

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Originally Posted by Taterhead

FYI, no need to get Cowboy RCBS dies. The only dimensional differences vs the standard dies is the expander plug and sometimes seating stem profile. In a standard set, the expander can be retroffitted with a "Cowboy" expander assembly. $7. Adds a little extra diameter and sometimes deeper expanding. For 10mm, the 38-40 Cowboy expander plug assembly is the ticket, by the way.

I like that the Cowboy plugs have the little gold colored lock ring so I can see which plug is in my die.

Of course NOE makes some nice expander plugs too.

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Thank you for the info. This is gunna be a cheap fix. I have a rcbs 9906 cowboy expander on order now!!!
It’s going take 6-9 weeks to arrive. They are back ordered everywhere. But that is ok. I have other projects to work on.

I went the same route as some others and got a couple of the "cowboy" stems (didn't spring for the gold rings though). As I was collecting up older steel die sets at the time I simply replaced the decapping/expanding assembly with the cowboy sizer, marked the set for wadcutters and haven't looked back.

I had a pix for another thread to show the sizing length diffrences

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...es-is-this-odd

JM7.7x58 Why seat so deep. Cases have a straight section where the bullet seats to. A bit below that the case starts to taper. If you are seating deep enough so the boolit base goes beyond this straight section you will bulge the cases. Try seating out a bit longer.
A new expander that is .001 below your boolit diameter will be better but might not stop the case bulges.
I do like the idea of sizing with the 38 SW die. I have a couple 38 SW cartridges and they wont quite chamber in my 357. So using that die may minimize case sizing.
To all who shoot revolvers you might try just neck sizing your brass. Even with carbides dies you can adjust the die out of the press so you only size to the depth you seat bullets or boolits. This leaves the lower half of the case the size of the chamber. This will help center the case in the chamber. Boolit in chamber mouth.
The Lyman 310 dies size this way. In my 44Mag it seems to shoot slightly better sized this way.
Leo

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Originally Posted by 44magLeo

JM7.7x58 Why seat so deep. Cases have a straight section where the bullet seats to. A bit below that the case starts to taper. If you are seating deep enough so the boolit base goes beyond this straight section you will bulge the cases. Try seating out a bit longer.
A new expander that is .001 below your boolit diameter will be better but might not stop the case bulges.
I do like the idea of sizing with the 38 SW die. I have a couple 38 SW cartridges and they wont quite chamber in my 357. So using that die may minimize case sizing.
To all who shoot revolvers you might try just neck sizing your brass. Even with carbides dies you can adjust the die out of the press so you only size to the depth you seat bullets or boolits. This leaves the lower half of the case the size of the chamber. This will help center the case in the chamber. Boolit in chamber mouth.
The Lyman 310 dies size this way. In my 44Mag it seems to shoot slightly better sized this way.
Leo

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Why did I seat them flush? Well that is how the factory ammo is loaded. Also, I had load data that called for flush seating. I did not think about it any more than that.

I am going to try some with a light crimp in the first lube groove. So thank you for the suggestion. I also sorted my brass last night. That is going to make a big difference. That PMC is just so much thicker.