6.5 Arisaka .

Everything I know about the particular rifle in question and the rifle in terms of its greater manufacture can be written on a train of rice .

Yes that was my best opening joke .
About a yr before my Dad passed away he bought a 6.5 Ja......Arisaka presumably a Type 38 , ground mum , basically GI gun . I have also a heavily sportered laminated nailed stock 7.7 that , well let's say "domoarigato" isn't among the words I have for our progress .

So sticking with the 6.5 only , and presuming it is still in it's original chambering , what do I need to be looking for in brass . I have a little bit of 7×57 and 257 Roberts but the last time I went looking for that I found 264 WM and 32 Rem first and in greater quantity , so I'm happy to ruin some perfectly good 270 for the effort if that is useable . I have a set of 6.5×257 AI on hand and a correct set that should be in hand any day now .
Do I need to worry about fat chambers or smaller chambers for that matter ?
Is there a typical groove dia ? I have 4-5 6.5 moulds the 266469 and NOE 270-140 come immediately to mind .

Powders I've become fond of IMR 4350 in 30-35 cal for full power heavies but I have H4831 and 4198 available . Of course Unique to figure out sizing etc .

Should I lean towards thick necks or size and ream again after the form and trim ?

Is it common to have long chambers . Might be important if I decided to shoot some .260-120s or the like patched up .

What's the design weight for GI loads ?

Yes I know I could have read a book and my 67&72 Hornady books probably have all of this but first hand from the field is more interesting .

I thought PPU made ammo in 6.5 jap. I need some for my rifle I haven’t shot in 25 years

I think someplace in the heaps there's a near full box of Norma . Privi loads a lot of "out of print" ammo it's possible . I have 2-300 270 on hand and nothing to put them in I thought I had a 280AI for a while but it turned out to be a wild cat that would slip fit a .301 in a fired case .

Before the Privi brass was commonly available brass was harder and more expensive to find. Norma makes good 6.5 brass. But with lots of privi now carried by Grafs and the like its the easy way. I used to convert 35 Rem to 6.5 Japanese fairly easily but dont bother anymore for that calibre. Bore sizes vary and different 6.5 molds will work differently. There are good loads in the old Lyman #3 cast load book that worked well for me

I am going to type what I would do and in the order I would do it.
Look at the barrel condition AFTER thoroughly cleaning it.
Determine that it is 6.5X50 and has not been converted to 6.5X257.
Determine the bore diameter.
Cast or coated projies?
Develop loads accordingly.

Start with the 7.7X58 and if you are lucky you can shoot .308 coated projies and appropriately sized cast BOOLITS.

Good point . I didn't think about the barrel especially , I do have sizers and paper to paper patch a window of .263-.268 . Slugging and over necking a case to CoW fire form are a gimme .

You can't make 6.5 Jap brass from 270 or any 30/06 based brass. The 6.5 Jap brass has a
different rimmed case head. Buy the Privi brass, it's the way to go.
Denny

Years ago, people would try to swage it down from .308 Winchester, using an arbor press. I remember reading about how difficult this was. Sometimes the swage die would crack from the pressure. Even when Norma brass was available, it was undersized. No need for that if you can get Privi Partisan.

I was about to say the only brass I have for 6.5 jap is Norma. There was a time that a box of Norma 6.5 J cost more than rifle was worth. A lot of WW2 vets who brought them home broke down and bought a box of Norma. I got all my brass from these guys, never bought any. Jap military ammo wasn’t available because most was dumped in the ocean. Most gun shops wouldn’t take JAPs on trade back in 50s. Guys that loaded had them punched for 6.5x257 Roberts. I have picked up a couple cheap because they wouldn’t shoot. Guys shooting 257Roberts found that bullets keyholed and blamed it on gun. Loaded with .264” bullets they did ok.

Thanks , I've read both ways on the brass and of oversized chambers . I have 3-4 appropriate die sets if I have to alter it to be useful , though I probably won't .

I could sacrifice an already abused die to swage cases .

35 Remington brass will work, but Graf and sons sells 6.5x50 brass. What I found out playing with two type 38 arisaka rifles is that you need to keep the velocity down. Once I got to 13 grains of 4227, 2400 and Sr 4759 they would group real well. The older type 38's like a fat bullet around .268 or a bit bigger. The war time 38 liked .266 diameter. These rifles can be challenging, I hope you're up for it!

I have a custom built on a Carcano action it's been a while since I had a good challenge .

Possible to post a pic? Carcano action would be a type I that Italy made for Japan.

i have made 6.5 japanese brass from 35 Rem, It was short but worked, 220 swift, problems with wrinkling at the shoulder, 308 military brass, had to turn down the head end of the case in front of the rim but left the rim alone. I would put the 308 brass that had been run through a 6.5 die in a lee trimmer case holder and spin them with a drill and cut the outside of the case with a file until they would fit in the chamber and i could close the bolt. It is a semi rimmed case. I have also used some brass made from 303 Brit that I did not make and they worked well. The problem I encountered with all the home made solutions was short case life and found it distressing to loose all that labor when I only got 2 or 3 firings before the neck split.

I also used some odd Norma 6.5x54 MS brass and 6.5 Carcano that came to me by accident and both worked but are probably more valuable as manufactured. Both of those were size and trim to length propositions.

Easiest by far is buy PPU ammo and or Norma.Shoot it ,Load and shoot it again, But you knew that.

I've played with the little 6.5 oriental for years, off and on. It's really a well designed round, using the minimum of materials....i.e. compact and efficient.

Please don't bother to form 6.5 Jap from another cartridge. Sure, it's "doable" but was only necessary back in the days before really good brass became available. I've used .308, 220 Swift and 35 Remington for forming. If you HAVE to form rounds, use the Remington. It's the easiest and the reduced length really doesn't hurt anything. Just lube it up and run into a FL die. Done.

Either Privi or Norma works well, BUT, a caution on the Norma brass: Many years ago, Norma copied a late war 6.5x50 Jap round for their production model. Problems began to surface when the rounds were fired in the rifles, in that they expanded at the base. All the guns were condemned as having oversize chambers, when in fact the Japanese REDUCED the overall round size for reliable feeding in the Nambu machine gun (the earlier cartridge FITS the rifle chambers properly). Unfortunately, that late war round was the one Norma copied. I understand they have since corrected the problem, but there's still a lot of the undersize brass out there. If you're using it in just one rifle, then neck size only and leave the base alone.

If you have a choice, Privi is the way I'd go and I believe Graf and Sons has it in stock. Buy fifty rounds, cast/size some .265 140 grain boolits and charge 14-15 grains of 2400 for starters.

I have a type 38 that someone did some "enhancing" work on the stock (sanded and spar varnished). The mum is ground but the metal is perfect, as is the bore. That little rifle will smack the gong at 200 yards all day long and has really surprised some "experts" out there!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iron brigade

Possible to post a pic? Carcano action would be a type I that Italy made for Japan.

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This is an Arisaka in question . The Carcano was extremely sporterized and very well polished . The remaining action , bolt , trigger and clip extension housing are a 41' Terni .

Frank and 06'
This is mostly what I was looking for in terms of working it out . I've a lot of work ahead of me on Dad's stuff . I may have to give the kids all of their gear just to make room for the projects .