Whats the deal with this bullet?

https://i.imgur.com/kk0DaaU.jpg

Two years ago i bought a Pedersoli 1885 High Wall in 38-55. It has a 1-12 twist and slugs at .379. I bought the Accurate mould on the left 38-345A because the gun was designed to shoot a postell style or money bullet in the 300 plus range for sillywet shooting out to 500 yards . Im using Range lead alloy like i do in my 45-70 Sharps with zero problems and ive also used 20:1 and 25:1 alloy. The bullet on the left absolutley will not shoot for nothing. Ive tried many powder combos and lube to no avail and many times at 100 yards it wont even hit the target backer. Ive had keyholing and yawing from the start. I have sized this bullet from .378-381 and the results are the same. This bullet leads pretty bad. Ive shot this bullet from 1200 FPS to 1450 FPS and again,the results are the same. Overall bullet length is 1.248 and measures .380 from the top to bottom.

The bullet on the right is also a Accurate bullet that a guy in Canada sent me to try as he has a Pedersoli also and this bullet was giving him fits but he did manage to get it to shoot well for him and it shot well in mine.using his load.It is 38-328M and shoots good using my same alloy, lube and roughly same speed. It will print head on and group about 2' with MVA sights all day long. Overall bullet length is 1.189 and measures .380 from the top to bottom.

I also shot Accurate 38-250D and it shoots even better but its too light for out to even 300 yards i believe. Its basically a cowboy action bullet. Overall bullet length is .9219 and measures .380 from the top to bottom

What in the world could cause the 38-34A bullet to simply not shoot?
NOTE THE IMAGE IS BLOWN UP SO YOU CAN SEE THE BULLET CLEARLY

I could be wrong but that boolit appears to have different diameters on each ring. What do they measure? I wouls suspect there is a bullet alignment / fit problem.

I'm using a 'Paul Jones' 372gn 5 groove boolit that was made off a chamber cast. Nose is 0.371" and rides the rifling, first driving band 0.373", next 0.375", next 0.377, and the last two 0.381". I use Starline 2.025" 'long' brass with 50gns of Swiss No.2 (3FG).

For short range matches to 200yds, I have a 250gn 0.381" which also shoots well in the fast twist barrel.

https://i.imgur.com/Z2bCbxZ.jpg

The 1:12" twist should stabilize the heaviest bullets found in .380" diameter. Not sure why yours doesn't? I shoot a 335 gr. in my 1:15" twist Schoyen Ballard, which was once considered very fast twist for the early 1900 era! It is extremely accurate with groups under 1" at 100 yds., and works extremely well at 500 yds. also. But I can shoot my 255 gr. bullets in the same gun, and be almost identical 500 yd. groups, so not sure why yours wont give good groups at 500 yds., and only at closer range?

all the bands are the same like i mentioned in my post. .380 after sizing i ordered it to drop at .382 and it does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by marlinman93

The 1:12" twist should stabilize the heaviest bullets found in .380" diameter. Not sure why yours doesn't? I shoot a 335 gr. in my 1:15" twist Schoyen Ballard, which was once considered very fast twist for the early 1900 era! It is extremely accurate with groups under 1" at 100 yds., and works extremely well at 500 yds. also. But I can shoot my 255 gr. bullets in the same gun, and be almost identical 500 yd. groups, so not sure why yours wont give good groups at 500 yds., and only at closer range?

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it wont hit the target hardly at 100 !

Looks to me like the longer boolit has a lot of unsupported weight in the nose. Maybe it is slumping and throwing any chance of balanced flight out the window?

Don't know, just a theory.

Robert

I thought that too MK, maybe try a slightly harder alloy. Are you loading over BP or smokeless, any wads ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by country gent

I thought that too MK, maybe try a slightly harder alloy. Are you loading over BP or smokeless, any wads ?

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im loading with smokeless. would lino stop any slumping if thats the problem?

I also was thinking that it had a long nose and slump. The other bullet can't slump because it's a pug (no nose).

I understand it's a 1/12" but did you measure (I saw where you slugged it)? Not trying to insult you at all here. The only Pedersoli I've owned was a John Bodine in 45/70 and I could just about load anything in it and it would shoot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DHDeal

I also was thinking that it had a long nose and slump. The other bullet can't slump because it's a pug (no nose).

I understand it's a 1/12" but did you measure (I saw where you slugged it)? Not trying to insult you at all here. The only Pedersoli I've owned was a John Bodine in 45/70 and I could just about load anything in it and it would shoot.

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yes i did measure the twist.its 1:12

I shoot 38-55 black powder reloads in a Uberti HiWall to 500 meters (with accuracy) using the Ideal 375166 bullet charged with 42 to 45grs of Kik FFg powder. The bullet also produces MOA groups at 100, 200 and 300
I had Tom at Accurate Molds clone the bullet cast from an original Ideal mold. Get rid of the 2 molds you have and buy this Accurate mold. Zero key holes and excellent accuracy.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-320E

Further proof of this bullet, a couple of years ago, I shoot 50 consecutive rounds with no tubing or blow tubing from 500 meters back to 200 meters with accuracy and minor sight adjustments. 4 water cotton balls to clean the bore and the 4th cotton was almost nearly white
Finally, this bullet rates a 4 ( max is 5) with a twist rate of 12 to 18 with a 17.8 twist rate at 18 twist using the Powley Calculator because it is 320gr weight being the best designed fix cartridge bullet that Ideal designed with the long bearing surface length

Try water quenching your range scrap, from the mould to give you a bit harder boolit and see if that helps.

I would agree with those pointing towards the long nose of this bullet's design. Just too much weight towards the back, and the long unsupported nose tends to never really stabilize it well. If you want to stay with a heavy bullet, I'd go with something that's got a longer body, and shorter nose design.
I've had good results using the Accurate 38-295C also. Just about 300 grs. but has a shorter nose and stays stabile a long way out. For my use I had Tom cut it with larger bands at each step of about .004" over his catalog specs at each band for my .380" groove barrel.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_...bullet=38-295C

Insert the nose of the bullet into your rifle's muzzle. If it goes freely, the nose is too small, and the bullet is not being held straight by the lands. A well known problem with bore-rider designs used in the military .30 calibers, (311284, 311299).

I would also go to the nose. It looks like the bullet is 1/2 unsupported. Do you crimp bullets in? I mean tight enough to use concentricity gage? Is your seater adding any deformation? You night try a tight long crimp, use the gage, see what you get. Anything over 2 thousands will not shoot and more so with that bullet. I played this game with the 375167, 38-72 bullet and found this was the only way to get any accuracy. Yet any number of other bullets would shoot well regardless of load, alloy whatever. An observation of mine - old Ideal molds that are really hard to find are the ones with the long, unsupported noses, like 375167. I wonder if there is a connection. Maybe these guys will send you some bullets to try befgore a new mold is ordered . best wishes